medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
From: John Wickstrom <[log in to unmask]>
> Thanks, Christopher, that answer (Tempera) was what I was after.
whatever turns you on.
no accounting for Taste, i suppose.
>BTW, thank you so much for that WONDERFUL source for medieval French
illuminations
>http://www.culture.gouv.fr/documentation/enlumine/fr/"http://www.culture.gouv.fr/documentation/enlumine/fr/
yes, it's the best of all those Ministre de Kulture sites,
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/bdd/index.html
perhaps the most accurate and the least Buggy.
i was able to take literally hundreds of images from it, of mss. which i'd
never seen before --some never published, i believe-- when i was trying to
make sense of 11th c. ms. illumination at Fleury some time ago.
some of which is a kind of degenerate Carolingian work
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/Wave/savimage/enlumine/irht2/IRHT_051995-p.jpg
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/Wave/savimage/enlumine/irht2/IRHT_051981-p.jpg
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/Wave/savimage/enlumine/irht2/IRHT_051965-p.jpg
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/Wave/savimage/enlumine/irht2/IRHT_052042-p.jpg
but there seems to have been a strong Anglo-Saxon influence which was brought
back home by Abbot Abbo shortly after the beginning of the century, and we
have stuff that looks like this:
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/Wave/savimage/enlumine/irht2/IRHT_053184-p.jpg
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/Wave/savimage/enlumine/irht2/IRHT_053185-p.jpg
which is among the most extraordinary images i've ever seen.
also, the "Mérimée" photographic database of the "patrimoine architectural"
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/documentation/merimee/accueil.htm
is really quite amazing, with tens of thousands of old photographs, most of
which have great historical interest.
but, the site is Buggy as Hell, a Pain in the Derriere to use and, most
astonishing, absolutely *full* of errors in the captions and localisation of
the photos --my estimate, based on some random looking i've done, is that
about 10% of the photos are mis-labeled.
this leads me to suspect that these sites are, in general, Conceived by
Geniuses, but are Executed by Morons, guys who are just filling their quotas
of geting X number of photos (or whatever) on line per day.
a shame, really.
>BTW, one thing I can't make the search engine of Enlumine do is to show me
the MSS from a particular period, say 1080-90. Am I missing something?
probably.
but, what part of "Buggy" don't you understand?
i think the secret is this peculiarly French concept: much on that site's
search engine only works "En Principe".
the site theoretically has all these nice Bells & Whistles, but actually
getting them to Perform as Promised... well, that's another histoire.
it's as though the guy who was setting up the site was just about to put that
particular Feature together so that it would actually work but, eh!, it was
time for dejuner, and when he got back from that after a couple of hours,
there was something Else to do....
> Also is the BN doing anything similar for its collection (you suggested not,
but just to make sure).
i don't know --my only knowledge comes from just stumbling upon these sites.
i'd imagine that Someting is in the Works re the Bn, however.
but, who knows what sort of Bureaucartic Bailiwickesque Infighting is involved
in doing that sort of thing.
off hand, i'd *guess* that the Enlumieres site was put together under the
austpices of the Ministre de Education (which, i *think* controls all the
public libraries).
but the B.n. might be in the Bailiwick of the Ministre de Kulture, which might
be a much more politically sensitive sort of animal.
alls i can remember is that there was a Total Jerk who was Ministre de Kulture
under Mitterand, and under his Act the Musee at Chartres was gutted of its
middlevil heritage and filled with "new" "art"; and the lovely smaller
couryard of the Palais Royal was vandalised by some absolutely Stupid and
grotesaque "sculpture" installation.
>Are the Italians doing anything similar?
don't know the Eyetalian sites --except from those good ones which John Dillon
regales us with so often.
the Vatican Library site looks promising, but certainly has a long way to go.
the Germans have some good Ms. sites, i believe, as do the Dutch.
but there are others on the list who know much more about all this than i do.
c
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