Dear all, Thanks to David Fryer who pointed out to me that I made a slip
of the email ( serve me right for emailing on a weekend when I should
have been out doing other things!): I meant to put the following:
Yet there is evidence, for example in the field of psychological
debriefing after disasters, that expert interventions, applied
uncriitically, can make things WORSE rather than BETTER, apparently by
interfering with naturally occuring social healing processes.
Annie
-----Original Message-----
From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Annie Mitchell
Sent: 02 July 2006 11:15
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Careers Re: 10000 more psychologists needed....
Lord Layard, whose government report advocates training more clinical
psychologists so as to support the provision of more psychological
therapies, provides an analysis in his book Happiness (2005), of why in
most Western countries, including the UK, depression rates seem to be
rising and happiness rates not rising despite overall increases in
material well-being. As an economist he has to express surprise -
political economy expectations had been that increases in GDP would
bring increases in citizen well-being overall, yet that simply hasn't
happened, at least not in the arena of psychological well-being. He
looks at the psychological literature and concludes that social
comparisions are an underlying mechanism: He says "We have a good idea
why happiness has risen less than was expected: our norms have risen, as
other people's incomes have risen and likewise our own experience of
comfort. The central mechanism at work here is our habit of
comparision." Now, one possible route for an economist interested in
psychology to follow on unearthing this insight would be to start
thinking about how psychology could help in challenging the social
forces at work that promote unhelpful expectations and aspirations and
that fuel inequalitites, social divisions and war ( eg the role of
advertising, the role of the media, the role of big business and
shareholder economics in structuring western society towards ever
increasing expecations of share holder rewards, the role of social
denial in the face of huge evidence that unsustainable levels of
consumption are fuelling environmental degradation and climate change).
Indeed, there is plenty in his analysis to take us along the route in
exploring these issues. However, his advisors from mainstream psychology
are not too good at providing help with all of this. Psychology as it
has been advanced in the west is largely ( though not entirely) the
cognitive psychology of the individual, with a significant interest in
clinical psychology in how to change people's thinking -- and given
political avoidance of tackling the vested interests at work in
advancing the social inequalities underpinning human distress, it is
unsurprising that it is psychological therapy (changing individuals'
"faulty" or "unhelpful" ways of thinking) that is currently attractive
politically. If we concentrate on getting the population happy with
things as they are, there is less political threat to those who stand to
benefit from things being as they are.
Yet at the same time, there is plenty of policy analysis in the Uk
currently that acknowledges the need for more socially just services and
provision - the NHS and public services are inceasingly asked to
contribute to efforts challenging social inequalites at a service
provision level - there are numerous examples of policy initiatives such
as the Ten Essential Shared Capabailites of the Whole of the Mental
Health Workforce which require us to work in ways advocated by community
psychology - promoting partnership. prevention and empowerment ... there
is lots of scope for challenging or providing a counter-balance to the
current pre-occupation with individual therapy. However, since community
psychology is so marginal to professional structures and therefore has
no sort of political voice, we don't have much if any influence -
currently the loudest voices in the applied clinical field are those of
cognitive behaviour therapists. I fully agree with David that we need
more community psychology at all levels of psychology learning.
Of course it is the case that people who are psychologically distressed
are asking for more talking therapies. We all know that human
relationships underpin our well-being ( indeed Layard's own analysis
summarises some of the evidence that this is so). But the evidence is
that when psychological therapies are helpful they work through the
provision of effective therapeutic relationships. But the social danger
in focussing too much on the provision of "expert" relationships is that
we thereby contribute to the diminishing of naturally occuring helpful
relationships within communities - we perpetuate the idea that people
cannot help one another but instead must rely on "expert" help. Yet as
David points out, we know that non-experts can be just as helpful as
trained professionals. (But trained professionals are not keen on
exploring that further - we want to belive that our own therapies are
special and complex thereby justifying our own existence). Yet there is
evidence, for example in the field of psychological debriefing after
disasters, that expert interventions, applied uncriitically, can make
things better rather than worse, apparently by interfering with
naturally occuring social healing processes.
I worry as a trainer in clinical psychology that the debate is polarised
- how can we contribute to advancing our social and psychological
understanding of the deeper forces underpinning human distress, while at
the same time adressing the deep human need for sympathetic humane
response to psychological distress in human individuals. Where is the
space for public health psychology? At the same time, how do we stop
ourselves simply serving our own vested interests - especially given the
need to justify the relatively large salaries that clinical
psychologists earn? And how we we bring together a genuinely social
applied psychology given the pressures and divides within our own
discipline - and the various envies and disgruntlements between the
different branches of psychology? And how do we genuinely work together
with our non-professional psychology colleagues/ comrades to contribute
to social change? I am aware that many clinical psychologists (
including many that I have been involved in training) want to apply
their critical knowledge of community psycholgy in practice yet
experience difficulties in doing so because current NHS employment
pressures along with uncritical management acceptance of the evidence
base of what works in practice limits the scope of their activities. It
is hard ( though not impossible) to promote social change from within -
it seems to me that we need to work together both within and without
professional structures if we are to tip the balance away from
simplistic solutions towards more complex analyses of what will improve
our collective well-being.
Annie
-----Original Message-----
From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List on behalf of David
Fryer
Sent: Sat 01/07/2006 10:54
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Careers Re: 10000 more psychologists needed....
Apologies if my previous posting was misleading for some.
I am indeed based at Stirling University myself but I certainly did not
provide a link to the Stirling site to stimulate interest in careers via
that route. I drew attention to that masters course in the Department
of psychology at Stirling, as part of the debate re 10,000 extra
psychologists, because it is an example of the newer courses I expect to
see proliferating - they are far shorter than clinical courses and so
the graduates are far cheaper to produce. Such shorter courses will
inevitably cover less material in less depth than three year clinical
doctorates because so much shorter and will provide a new workforce of
psychologists for the NHS which is cheaper than employing clinical
psychologists.
Of course one can take different positions on such courses. From a
critical perspective they share many of the problems of mainstream
clinical psychology: both are primarily are about 'treating' individuals
within a medical model frame of reference through intra-psychic change
rather than preventing or addressing collective causes of distress
within a social justice frame of reference through societal change. Both
collude with victim blaming. Some might argue that three years of
clinical training provides more scope for engaging with more approaches
to intervention (some clinical courses include modules on community
psychology) and more scope for critical reflection on the 'scientific
practitioner' mantra. However, others might argue that because it is
shorter the training for a one year masters has less chance for trainees
to be socialised into problematic clinical ways and less opportunities
for the effectiveness of trainees to be diminished than clinical
training (thinking of Durlak's classic work suggesting that non
professionals are often more effective than professionals in addressing
psychological difficulties).
What I would really like to see is more opportunities to learn about
critical community* psychology in the UK as there are in many other
countries. Regrettably I cannot currently recommend Stirling in that
regard to members of this list. An established undergraduate module in
critical community psychology has recently been discontinued by the
University and whilst there is some really good postgraduate critical
community psychology going on here now that particular work will be
drawing to a close within a few months. Whilst future postgraduate
supervision in critical community psychology is available in theory, in
practice funding is very difficult indeed to get. Further community
psychological praxis at Stirling involving more personnel depends, as
elsewhere, upon the availability of external funding but such funding
seldom allows genuinely critical praxis for obvious reasons - why would
the powerful fund work fundamentally devoted to depowering it?
David
* interesting social psychology at Stirling is developing following the
relatively recent appointment of Alex Gillespie
________________________________
From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List on behalf of Sue
McPherson
Sent: Fri 30/06/2006 13:52
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Careers Re: 10000 more psychologists
needed....
. . . . .
Nevertheless, you will have many interested people (in careers,
probably) looking at the Stirling site. It would be better, I am sure,
if society is going to get stuck with more top-down cures that there is
more variety. . . .. Are you at Stirling, by the way
Sue McPherson
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Swindlehurst
<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: 10000 more psychologists needed....
No spelling mistake (on this occassion) with my use of
the word 'canon'. This was a reference to the power of religion. The
'barons' refer to those who mostly control our social and economic
structures as well put by Cathy and David below. The intended
construction and advance of the 10k may help a little toward
enlightening the big guns but I fear it is more likely to shield and
prolong their reign at even greater loss to us all, including
themselves. Our species and planet cannot cope with these 'valley of
death' conflicts and inequalities indefinately. I just hope we can come
up with a universal light giving brigade before it is too late for all
of us. My hopes for this are currently largely with list members and
your allies - most people on this planet I should imagine.
Mike S
----- Original Message -----
From: David Fryer <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: 10000 more psychologists needed....
Who would train the 10,000 psychologists? Yet more
psychologists (to be employed and trained to train) of course.
Would they come from the same school . . . . I would bet
on training primarily to deliver cognitive behaviour therapy to people
diagnosed as 'anxious' or 'depressed' . Much easier (and politically
acceptable) to offer people psychological snake oil than to change our
society to remove social causes of psychological distress and physical
illness like unemployment, stressful employment, domestic violence,
racism, heterosexism, disabling practices . . . . .
If you want to get a glimpse of the likely future have a
look at the MSc Psychological Therapy in Primary Care at Stirling
University: "A variety of studies by central government and professional
bodies have identified the growing demand for psychological
interventions for adults presenting with common mental health disorders
(e.g. anxiety and depression) in NHS Primary care. There is also
widespread recognition of the difficulties in meeting that demand. This
Masters program, delivered jointly by the Universities of Stirling and
Dundee has been designed by National Health Service (NHS) professionals
and experienced academics to train people to deliver psychological
therapies for common mental health disorders in adults in Primary Care."
<http://www.psychology.stir.ac.uk/postgrad/propspectus2.php>
http://www.psychology.stir.ac.uk/postgrad/propspectus2.php
To get back to Tennyson . . . I too struggled with the
light brigade comparison, find the poem's images repugnant on a variety
of levels and certainly do not see the 10K psychologists as the innocent
victims. Cathy McCormack has spoken powerfully of the 'war without
bullets' being waged against people lower down the social hierarchy by
people higher up it . . . .a war being fought with brief cases, policies
leading to widening inequalities, stigma, disabling practices and
psy-techniques which lead people to internalise understandings of
themselves and their settings which are damaging to them and serve the
interests of the status quo. So if we are to think in terms of the
charge of the light brigade at all, I suggest imagining those advancing
into the valley of death as being those millions of our fellow citizens
who epidemiologists have repeatedly shown have shorter, less healthy,
more brutalised lives due to a variety of forms of societal inequality
and imagine the the 10,000 psychologists as camped on the sides of the
valley operating the CBT cannon to the left of them, the person centred
cannon to the right of them, the stress management cannon in front of
them and the positive psychology cannon behind them
As for Marx . . .. I don't know about others but if my
work was described as Marxist I would take it as a compliment . . .
David
David Fryer
Community Psychology Group
University of Stirling
FK9 4LA
Scotland
+44 (0) 1786 467650 (tel)
+44 (0) 1786 467641 (fax)
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion
List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sue McPherson
Sent: 29 June 2006 1:53 pm
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] 10000 more
psychologists needed....
I don't know who you are or what you do. Sounds
Marxist to me. I can't come up with a different metaphor at this moment
but how about just not seeing the world in terms of them and "us" with
psychologists the innocent victims in all this.
Does not anyone know the theory behind this -
that as people are rewarded they will align themselves with the
oppressors? Psychologists can do harm as well as good, as any of us can.
But they do have a lot of power.
I would want to ask, who is going to train all
these psychologists? Are they all going to come from the same school -
the same way of thinking. Wouldn't it be better to have a variety of
mental health professionals - if there has to be - to deal with
different kinds of people - psychoanalysts, psychotherapists,
psychiatrists, trained women's counsellors, and so on. It's frightening
to think of so many psychologists wandering the social community seeking
out new "victims" to indoctrinate into their way of thinking -
particularly if they've all studied and come from the perspective of
behaviourism.
Sue McPherson
Sociology (social-psychology and women's
studies), envisioning wannabee psychologists rubbing their hands with
glee.
----- Original Message -----
From: Serdar M. Degirmencioglu
<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 5:29 AM
Subject: Re: 10000 more psychologists
needed....
Well put...
Serdar M. Degirmencioglu
----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Swindlehurst
<[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 1:21:15 PM
Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] 10000
more psychologists needed....
Into the valley of death rode the ten
thousand - canons to the left of them, barons to the right of them. Yet
more measures to protect the big guns who are destroying all of us.
Mike S
----- Original Message -----
From: David Fryer
<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
To:
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 9:59
PM
Subject: Re: 10000 more
psychologists needed....
Why 10,000 psychologists needed?
In his paper, The Role of the
Psychologist, Ignacio Martin-Baro cited French psychologist, Richelle,
as asking Why psychologists?, why the quiet proliferation of a new
species and Deleule as offering an insightful reply psychology offers an
alternative solution to social conflicts: it tries to change the
individual while preserving the social order, or, in the best of cases,
generating the illusion that, perhaps as the individual changes, so will
the social order. Martin Baro commented when looking dispassionately at
the place some psychological concepts occupy in the dominant political
and cultural discourse, or when pondering the role played by the
majority of psychologists in our countries, one has to concede that
Deleule makes a lot of sense (Aron and Corne, 1994:37).
Aron, A. and Corne, S. (Editors)
(1994). Writings for a Liberation Psychology: Ignacio Martin-Baro.
Harvard University Press: Cambridge , Mass.
David
David Fryer
Community Psychology Group
University of Stirling
FK9 4LA
Scotland
+44 (0) 1786 467650 (tel)
+44 (0) 1786 467641 (fax)
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: The UK Community
Psychology Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Sue McPherson
Sent: 23 June 2006 1:38 pm
To:
[log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK]
10000 more psychologists needed....
Or, people could respond on this
list, if they don't mind not making "rapid response." What do you
think, Petra? You must have an opinion on this, surely.
Sue McPherson
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