Thank you for your prodigious Weeping, O Pedant that cannot be named. I like
the idea of Heraclitus and Silenus somehow coming together on the Bronx. One
issue I would take with 'ee:

> I'm not sure I'd agree with them (and you) dave, that it's Urban
American --
> in fact, I'd virtually bet that wherever it's from, it's literary rather
> than street -- the Street (whatever else it does) tends not to come out
with
> a straight trochiac octosyllabic line [truncated, as so many trochaic
lines
> are] as formal as that.

Now I, my dear, am most certainly of the Street, and have no qualms in
claiming familiarity with Trochaic Octopi (truncated or syllabubed in full)
and if me why not others? Consider, for instance, the very strong literary
and 'middle class' among the urban poor Jewish population of 1930's New
York.

Best

Dave


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Hamilton" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 9:38 PM
Subject: Re: Not Re: Test


> Quoth the Birk:
>
> > One for any Possible Pedant who might be lurking hereabouts (not that I
> > have
> > anyone particular in mind)
> >
> > Earlier on a BBC7 replay of an old edition of Quote UnQuote the question
> > of
> > the origins of :
> >
> > 'Life's a bitch, and then you die'
>
> I presume you don't just want a rehash of Beale/Partridge8 (or all the
other
> 19thC slang dictionaries, which currently I have up to my eyeballs)?
>
> My ear says there's a line earlier in Auden close to this, ends: "... you
> have to try."
>
> Dunno.  Can't get my head around it at the moment, and too lazy to chase
it
> up.  Anyone know?
>
>         "Life is for living, you have to try" -- that it?
>
> I said recently, vis a vis the (apocryphal) Scottish Calvinist remark
about
> life, "You're not here to enjoy yourself, you're here to suffer," that it
> seemed an obvious sentiment to me.
>
>         (Actually, I didn't say quite that, but there ... )
>
> BP8 has:
>
> BITCH n A lewd woman: S.E. from origin (-- 1400)
>
> [lots more, but that's the crunch].  So "bitch" in this sense goes back to
> the 15thC at least.
>
> For the other part, how about what the wise Silenus said to King Midas
when
> asked what was the best thing for man:
>
>     "The best thing is never to be born, and if you can't manage that,
then
> to die as soon as possible."
>
> (Admittedly, the Silenus was being subjected by Midas to [we aren't
allowed
> to call it torture any more, are we?] Extreme Methods of Interrogation at
> the time, so might simply have been telling Midas what he wanted to hear.)
>
> Put the two together, stir in Heraclitus on not stepping into the same
river
> twice, and bob's your uncle:
>
>         'Life's a bitch, and then you die'
>
> Typical early 20thC angst, as it finally emerges.
>
> Any help?
>
> A Weeping Pedant
>
> > came up. Now not, I hasten to append, that I agree with that sentiment,
> > but
> > I am curious. The best they could come with was Urban American (must be,
I
> > nod at that)
>
> I'm not sure I'd agree with them (and you) dave, that it's Urban
American --
> in fact, I'd virtually bet that wherever it's from, it's literary rather
> than street -- the Street (whatever else it does) tends not to come out
with
> a straight trochiac octosyllabic line [truncated, as so many trochaic
lines
> are] as formal as that.
>
> > but earliest known citation was 1986. Now they felt that was
> > too recent and same here too.
> >
> > Any offers?
>
> Offered above -- any help to you?
>
> R.
>
> (There is, of course, the end of Dorothy Parker's "Razors" -- "you might
as
> well live" -- that seems to be coming out of the same matrix as dave
quotes.
> Flip side of the coin.  Maybe someone in the Algonquin Club made the line
> up.  Maybe even Dot herself.  Dunno, really, if it matters.)