Rebecca: Statistics are useful for testing theories and for setting
policy. For instance, knowing what populations are at highest risk
allows resources to be channelled more effectively, and alerts
helpers to be especially careful with certain patients. They don't
help us deal with the horrors of our own lives.
Suicide is the worst thing one can do to one's loved-ones. I've seen
enough of it that I made a vow a long time ago that I would never do
that to Carlos.
Mark
At 02:07 AM 4/1/2006, you wrote:
> >From: Mark Weiss
> >I'll shut up in a minute, after I report what I
>learned from a very
> >cursory glance at several apparently good statistical
>studies that I
> >found on the web, all of which use as their
>experimental sample all
> >of the known suicides in a given year or period of
>years.
>
>Well, I was curious myself and looked at a number of
>statistics, etc, and in the U.S. the highest rate of
>suicide per 100,000 among men is in the over 75 age
>group. It is in Australia that the 35-44 age groups
>among men have the highest rate, making it in some
>years, the leading cause of death. As for women, in
>the US the highest rate is in ages 40-59 and in
>Australia ages 35-44. There was some noting that these
>differences must indicate societal differences, and
>the high rate of middle-aged male suicide in Australia
>was connected, as Alison noted, with relationship
>breakup. It would seem, that more obvious factors,
>like age, illness, etc, would account for the high
>rate of the over 75 group for men in the U.S.. And
>while relationship breakup might be easier for women,
>(is it?) I'd guess that women's having the highest
>rates in middle age would probably have some
>connection to divorce or relationship breakup, both
>emotionally, and in the economic factors. I also don't
>think that it's exactly positive that women 'only'
>'attempt suicide' 35 times.
>
>I don't know about these larger theories. It would
>seem from the statistics that if misogyny, homophobia,
>and hollow constructs of masculinity are behind the
>rates of middle-aged male suicide, as Alison
>suggested, then Australia has considerably more of a
>problem with these issues than the U.S. does. And,
>yes, Aborigines commit suicide at a 40% higher rate
>than the white population of Australia. But in the
>U.S., white males commit suicide most often, followed
>by Native Americans. Oddly black women are least at
>risk, I say oddly because given economic and class
>factors, if those are the deciding factors, then that
>seems counter intuitive.
>
>Anyway, I don't know, but, truthfully, this
>conversation bothers me with its emphasis upon
>assumption and far reaching theory since it doesn't
>seem very connected to the realities of such
>experiences. I cannot talk about suicide without
>seeing my brother's body lying in the grass where he
>shot himself, not once, but twice in the chest, nor
>without seeing my uncle's shattered temples and blind
>eyes from his attempted suicide from which he died a
>couple of years later. There were a great many
>differences between them, my brother was in his early
>40's, a cowboy, unemployed for some months, my uncle
>was in his early 60's, retired, well off, from his
>career as a captain in the Merchant Marines. What they
>had in common were: they were both not working and the
>sort of work they did was as much about who they were
>as what they did, they both drank too much and had for
>some time, they both wanted to make changes in their
>lives and had long term marriages and each of their
>wives (while very different too) were adamant about
>not changing anything, they both had no children, they
>had both been severely rejected, recently, by the same
>person, my father, they were both given 'help'
>diagnosis and treatment by family members who didn't
>know what they were doing and basically did just
>enough to keep their problems hidden from anyone else
>who might have actually helped. And there was an
>element of the random, being left a key to where the
>guns were locked up. I do think there was some element
>of this masculine construct, some way in which they
>were both caught in a hollow mold at a young age, but
>it's so difficult to separate out from any of the
>sheer unremitting damages of childhood, my uncle grew
>up in an orphanage, etc. It just seems to me that
>people damage one another horribly, they don't mean
>to, they intend otherwise and cannot see how they do,
>but they do. Which isn't to say that both my uncle and
>brother didn't chose to continue the damage to
>themselves. I don't really think economics or
>education or considerations of misogyny would have
>made any difference. And, sorry, if I seem impatient,
>
>best,
>
>Rebecca
>
>
>
>
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