I was aware of the problems you talk about. Only psychiatrists can
prescribe medication--I wasn't a psychiatrist--and only psychiatrists
can commit people involuntarily. If I thought that someone might
benefit from medication or needed to be committed for their own
safety I had to work through a psychiatrist. Everywhere I ever worked
we were very careful about diagnostic categories precisely because
diagnosis could affect the patient's life. On the other hand, a
diagnosis in the record can save a life by alerting other
professionals the patient will come into contact with about a problem.
I have no idea if you have a "hostility problem." I haven't had to
diagnose anyone in something over 15 years, and I dont indulge in pop
psychology.
If you want to continue this discussion let's do it backchannel.
Mark
At 11:03 AM 4/1/2006, you wrote:
>Mark,
>
> > I wasn't the kind of therapist you're talkinhg about. I'm sorry
> > you're so hostile to the profession.
>
>Ah. So I have a hostility problem now.
>
>Thanks for that.
>
>The kind of therapist I am talking about is anyone in a position to control
>someone else's body (i.e. commit them/force medication on to them) and/or is
>in a position to label someone with a mental disorder. Labelling someone
>e.g. as schizophrenic whilst opening up some opportunities for treatment
>also effectively marginalises individuals and reduces their 'voice' in
>society. Anything that person does is then easily linked to the disorder.
>Well, you know they are schizo after all... People with a physical problem
>don't tend to get dismissed in the same way.
>
>
>Tina
>
>
>
>
> > Mark
> >
> > At 09:02 AM 4/1/2006, you wrote:
> > >Mark,
> > >
> > >I am interested to know where your certainty and self-assurance comes
>from.
> > >I see so many weaknesses in arguements based on
> > >statistics/paradigms/theoretical frameworks it is hard to know where to
> > >begin... You have had experience as a therapist - that much is obvious.
>My
> > >experiences, observations and academic study (the latter is the least
> > >important I think) of 'psychology professionals' suggests professions
>based
> > >on self-sustainment and collegial reinforcement of their professional
> > >expertise. I'm sure you are aware that the number of definitions for
>mental
> > >disorders has increased at an exponential rate in the last century - in
>line
> > >with the increased numbers of professionals able to diagnose/treat them,
> > >perhaps.
> > >
> > >As Alison has said 'our brains are complex to the point of complete
>mystery'
> > >but it is in the interests of psychologists et al to define mental
> > >conditions and treat them. When their ability to 'treat' is exhausted it
>is
> > >then in the interests of everyone to have the individual in question
> > >withdrawn from society - they become really bloody embarrassing to
>everyone
> > >concerned. I have recently witnessed the treatment of a neighbour who
>has
> > >some very apparent problems. Her behaviour is erratic and quite
>disturbing
> > >(possibly something to do with being repeatedly raped as a child by her
> > >father and uncles but I wouldn't want to make any irrational assumptions
> > >here). Her treatment seems to consist of medication that puts her into
>an
> > >ever more dazed and confused state (a docile/non-threatening state?)
>When
> > >she becomes very agitated she tends to make daily trips to her doctor.
> > >Confinement and bouts of electro-shock usually follow until she is calm
> > >enough to be released. This has gone on for about 18 months now and my
> > >strong suspicion is that her partner (now with a drink problem) and her
> > >doctor are getting ever more hopeful that she will kill herself and put
>them
> > >out of their misery. Of course when/if she does I'm sure that all
>concerned
> > >will be able to say that nothing could be done.
> > >
> > >There are approaches to mental health problems that are not about
> > >maintaining the status quo or maintaining the power of professionals.
> > >Narrative Therapy for instance offers the potential for genuine
>engagement
> > >with an individual (or a family) and possiblities for separating the
>person
> > >from any problems. As it focusses on story-telling, results are not
>easily
> > >quantified and are therefore easily dismissed by many.
> > >
> > >Incidentally, were your patients ever present at meetings when they were
> > >being discussed?
> > >
> > >Tina
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Mark Weiss" <[log in to unmask]>
> > >To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > >Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 1:00 AM
> > >Subject: Re: Feminism: an aside
> > >
> > >
> > > > OK, I accept that there may be a factual basis for your explanation,
> > > > but it's a very small foundation for a rather baroque edifice.
> > > > Occam's razor, please.
> > > >
> > > > A little more about suicide. It's common for therapy patients to
> > > > express moments of suicidal ideation that may be more serious than
> > > > the everyday ho hum I think I'll kill myself. In the US, at least in
> > > > the jurisdictions I know about, patient confidentiality ends the
> > > > moment the therapist is convinced that a patient is seriously a
> > > > danger to him/herself or others, at which point the therapist is
> > > > required by law to report to the police, which leads to involuntary
> > > > committment. Obviously committment has consequences, and you can't
> > > > commit everyone. So what to do? Here's a comon assessment test: you
> > > > make a deal with the patient that she/he won't commit suicide until
> > > > after the next session. Believe it or not, it works. Which doesn't
> > > > mean that the therapist gets much sleep during the intervening nights.
> > > >
> > > > For the record, I dealt professionally with dozens of suicidal
> > > > patients, and in mental health outpatient clinics where I worked
> > > > there were hundreds each year, all of which got discussed in clinical
> > > > meetings by clinicians from every imaginable theoretical background.
> > > > I can't remember a single case that fit the paradigm you described,
> > > > and I can't remember any clinician attempting to fit a patient into
> > > > that paradigm.
> > > >
> > > > Mark
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 07:46 PM 3/31/2006, you wrote:
> > > > >On 1/4/06 9:39 AM, "Mark Weiss" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > A much more modest set of claims, Alison
> > > > >
> > > > >Hmm. Seems to me that I am saying exactly the same thing (that there
>are
> > > > >definite links between high male suicide rates and traditional
> > >constructions
> > > > >of masculinity), but explaining why I think the things I do.
>Scepticism
> > >is
> > > > >welcome of course, but I actually have real reasons for most of the
> > >things I
> > > > >say.
> > > > >
> > > > >But you can't write a book every time you make an assertion in an
>email
> > > > >discussion. Yes, take the complexity of human behaviour as read; it
> > > > >underlies everything I say as an implicit or explicit caveat. Our
>brains
> > >are
> > > > >complex to the point of complete mystery. Me, I'm having a shower.
> > > > >
> > > > >All best
> > > > >
> > > > >A
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Alison Croggon
> > > > >
> > > > >Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com
> > > > >Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au
> > > > >Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com
> > > >
> >
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