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Thanks joe. Briefly, because off to be a goody-two-shoes and look after a
poetry workshop (unpaid labour btw, hence goody etc.):
> So in re the Japanese poet hoax. Who was harmed?,
The late Jon Silkin, a man and a writer I deeply respected, was one of
Kent's victims, undeservedly.
Doug Clarke is sometime a member of this list, I'll forward your remarks,
he'll appreciate them. Nice one.
All the Best
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "joe green" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: The Transgressive Poet
Exactly right. Tho --
"I also always find myself disagreeing in an equal proportion: the
debunking
of the power-games in the literary scene, yes, I go along with that, but not
with the concomitant desire to be exactly in the same position as those who
are opposed, at least, that is the impression I derive."
doesn't apply to me. As D Latane can attest (he was here...one instance
of the souls scattered form rec.arts.books) I have made no power grabs
myself and have shown a fine disdain even for publishing and so on and
getting into all that. Or maybe better...I lack the energy for those venues
exactly...or maybe better I enjoy a deserved obscurity. Whatever. But I do
have fun and this and that happens and I meet blithe spirits and Kent is one
of them and knows that we all go down to the dwimmering dark and on the way
is breaking through certain conventions.
Above all I appreciate generosity and humor and that mixed with a
willingness to cut through the Usual is what I like about Kent's poems.
And speaking of blithe spirits I see that Ken Wolman is here and when he
finds time he is going to read some poems so that I can podcast them. He's
written some of the best poems I have ever read.
The hoax situation you outline is horrible and the consequences horrible
and I despise that sort of thing. KJ's hoax (and I don't know that much
about it) was pretending to be a Japanese poet. I guess this one and that
one liked the poems, wrote learned analyses of just how it all fit in with
Japanese literature and so on and then was distressed to find that the
author was KJ. I don't know. But this seems just literary shenanigans and
doesn't even especially expose the believers or the writers of these
analyses as fakes or fools. Interesting as to what preconceptions are
brought to criticism, the whole question of What is Art and so on. Well,
not that interesting I guess to an old guy like me who has been through MLA
conventions and so on and really would just rather talk about what real
poetry is, the strangeness and lasting power of, for example, Wordsworth and
so on.
What I liked in the Japanese poet poems was the fineness of the poems
themselves and in his books of epigrams what I like is the willingness to
not participate in the usual getting along, as well the poems that were
really generous and lovely expressions of admiration for this and that life,
the sheer intelligence of it all, and in quite a few poems (which he says
are trifles) beauty. I think poetry is (and I have forgotten where I got
this from) whatever manages to get said in spite of the various tyrannies
that want to prevent the saying. Including social and aesthetic.
So in re the Japanese poet hoax. Who was harmed?
As far as the epigrams exisiting withing a system of exchanges and
strategies designed to wrest power away...and then to him The fact is that
this won't happen. Silence will prevail and life will go on. But it is a
brilliant way to at least get somebody to actually read your poems (even if
the reading is conditioned by loathing) and to, at least in a few cases, get
some sort of response. Of course you are ultimately right when you say:
"Poetry can ask everything of you, but promises
nothing."
But at least you might hope to get some readers...
And as an addendum. Does Douglas Clark of Bath participate here?
I want it on record that his work in Fulcrum (one, two years ago?) was the
gear.
David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Thank you and may you transgress.<
Cor, joe, thanks for the permit.
Y'know, in many ways I agree with Kent Johnson or the Kent project, however,
I also always find myself disagreeing in an equal proportion: the debunking
of the power-games in the literary scene, yes, I go along with that, but not
with the concomitant desire to be exactly in the same position as those who
are opposed, at least, that is the impression I derive.
I think about many things, a fact which is often a source of surprise to me,
what is a Brummagem piss-head doing in such spheres, among other matters, I
note the characterististics of both US and Brit culture, although the
following comments are of the nature of cultural commentary snapshots, and
most certainly not all-encompassing, true by determinism, or applicable to
everyone, there are certain predelictions or strands in both cultures that
can be roughed out in the calamity of slipshod that constitutes the matter
of prose explications of a mystery like poetry: Brit culture has a tendency
towards socilaised generality, one can see extreme exemplars of in
characters like the current Queen, who doesn't seem, in her public persona,
to have a character at all, but rather a dedication to duty which makes
public and anonymous simultaneously, or the late actor Alec Guinness, who
was many parts but also no-one, this culture has the virtues of being able
to characterise the other but also slipping into heavy-handed moralising
(while privately joking) in poetry it can exhibit, among other aspects, a
concern with form as propriety; US culture on the other hand is beset by the
sin of narcissism, and a facetiousness towards the other, and this tendency
towards massaging the ego in public is where the Kent project falls down (in
the first instance). Poets as diverse as Ashbery, Ginsberg (the windy) or
even Wallace Stevens ( who was too a poet genuinely of the first rank) are
weakened by this.
In the second instance the Kent project falls down on the issue of the hoax:
hoaxes, like jokes, of which they are a particular form, are ok in small or
measured or should one say +tactful+ doses, but there comes a time time when
the joke does not amuse. Rather than litchatnat-nat here's somedthing
anecdotal, personal, real, and on the table about hoaxes: for a starter,
some might remember a few months back that I mentioned a very bizarre
anecdote wherein I'd had what amounted to a threat of potential death via
some people in a local arts centre. It transpired that the threat was a
hoax, aimed at winding me up, I was somewhat relieved to discover that was
the case but considered the joke in rather poor taste: it really distressed
me for a few days but I was more glad that it was not true than bothered to
get my own back. It was on not-really-funny Level One of hoaxes, an
annoyance in retrospect but not that much more. The Kent project at its most
effective unfortunately chimes at that level.
Level Two of hoaxdom is what we, that is me and Victoria, Vicky first and
foremost, have encountered in the last few weeks. She has been told that a)
a guy intends to shoot her eldest son when he (her son) gets out of prison
next year, he (the guy) is confident he will get away with it because he has
a history of mental illness so he will be able to claim it was not
premeditated; and b) - it gets worse - thatr her ex-partner who is the
father of her 10 year old daughter, which little girl is the foster-care of
the blokes illiterate mother even though he is a schedule one offender and
is not supposed to have unsupervised acces to the daughter, plans to to rape
his daughter when she reaches the age of twelve.
We (Vicky & I) have no confidence in either the police or the social
services but we have taken the measure of putting these matters on record in
case any of this does happen with another section of authority, but, to
segue back to hoaxes, we do not know whether the things that have been said
are true or part of Vicky's ex's desire to screw her head up. Now this moral
reality of where the hoax can (possibly) end up is something in terms of
awareness that the Kent project is blind or deaf to.
Likewise, it +wants+ something, call it recognition, from poetry. I don't
know much but I know this: poetry can ask everything of you, but promises
nothing.
All the Best
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "joe green"
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 5:19 PM
Subject: The Transgressive Poet
May I direct everyone's attention to some recent podcasts?
The latest "The Transgressive Poet" contains life changing epistemes (if
that's the world (sic) I want) of all sorts directed exactly at those poets
trapped in a pleasant conformity to the Poetry World AS IT IS. It
documents an ordinary day in the life of a transgressive poet who has
(forgive the verb that follows) interiorized Kent Johnson's admonition to
young post avant poets to stop blogging and engaging in the usual reindeer
games and do something to show that they know life is short, to defy the
pezzonovantes of poesy and to live, to live! It's called "The Transgressive
Poet" and may be found here.
http://thejeunessedoree.libsyn.com/
While there you may want to save your soul and download "The Sense of an
Ending" and then wait to listen to that until you have heard the two parts
of the exorcism of Kent Johnson, which, I am afraid put an end to the
silliness of the Usual - including, for God's sake, "Flarf" and its
festivals of vacuum.
Thank you and may you transgress.
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