This is so off-base, Dave, that it's useless to respond.
At 09:58 PM 3/28/2006, you wrote:
>Yeah, Mark, I know WCW's big attempt was Paterson, which is a dull failure,
>I have read it me ducks, but I think his big push, as a lyric poet, I'm one
>meself so I do notice these things, was the 'Asphodel'. It starts well, but
>it doesn't sustain itself, it's too I want to sell you something it's the
>American way of life be a consumer in it's feel. The greedy baby narcissism,
>which is the besetting sin of US literature, undermines it, rhythmically
>WCW's threadbare technique exposes itself.
>
>As I said before, the highlighting of WCW's fridge poem, I have eaten the
>plums, so nice, fixes him, as the unwitting bard of consumer US-global
>culture, the possession of fridges, as well as big gas-guzzling cars, was a
>kind of selling point of US supremacy to the masses. I'm not being
>anglo-centric in this, the UK was a willing and nowadays a very large
>partner (now worldwar-recovered) in all this, dear sweet Aus is joining in
>too, ( I've noticed the utter silence about the international festival of
>shots for tv in the name of sport called the Commonwealth Games that has
>just taken place in Melbourne, surely Alison should have noticed, I thought
>one or two shots were actually taken from the Strand in Williamstown, and as
>for Ireland, well, words fail me, to be sure)
>
>Best
>
>Dave
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mark Weiss" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 3:18 AM
>Subject: Re: Help! The grass is singing
>
>
> > Not best known that way among poets. And he was more than a little
> > red in his politics. "His big attempt..." is simply inacurate. To the
> > very limited extent he thought that way it would probably be
> > Paterson. Sorry you can't hear the music.
> >
> > Eliot has few children in America and has become something of an
> > artifact of the past, even among those who love the poems. Williams
> > fathered tribes and remains contemporary for many.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > At 09:04 PM 3/28/2006, you wrote:
> > >Have read them Mark. Seriously, and you know I can do 'funnin' just as
>well
> > >as you, I think the problem with Williams is rhythmical, in that he's not
> > >working against anything, even at his best. This applies particulary to
>'Of
> > >Asphodel....' which I've always felt was his big attempt, I dunno,
> > >artistically, to do something, you need resistance. Poor Wiilliams is
>best
> > >known for a short poem about stuff in the fridge and another about a
>garden
> > >implement. He became thereby the unwitting lareate of consumerism, think
> > >about it.
> > >
> > >I have this notion that WCW would have a lovely bloke to have met, EP
>would
> > >have been strange but likeable, TSE would have been 'how unpleasant to
>meet
> > >Mr Eliot' but also in a different league.
> > >
> > >Best
> > >
> > >Dave
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Mark Weiss" <[log in to unmask]>
> > >To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > >Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:49 AM
> > >Subject: Re: Help! The grass is singing
> > >
> > >
> > > > I would suggest you take a look at the sequence "Spring and All" and
> > > > the late poems "Of Asphodel the Greeny Flower" and "The Desert
> > > > Music." Might help you see the stones in what you call fluff. And
> > > > then read the rest of Williams. I have my arguments with him, but
> > > > he's pretty much universally considered, after Dickinson and Whitman,
> > > > the essential forebear by members of almost all camps in this
> > > > benighted territory.
> > > >
> > > > Mark
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 08:00 PM 3/28/2006, you wrote:
> > > > >it was only a "we" for fun on happy poets -
> > > > >
> > > > >i like what you say about eliot's weirdness & your description makes
> > > > >Sweeney A sound very appealing - I'll go & read it soonest
> > > > >
> > > > >Edmund
> > > > >
> > > > >Do 'we' think of Eliot as 'not happy' and Williams as being so? This
> > > > >particular part of 'we' doesn't look at things in that way at all.
> > >Williams
> > > > >certainly can seem fluffy compared to the cold weird and brilliant
>Eliot.
> > > > >The best Eliot poems, such as (of course) The Waste Land, Mr
>Appolinax
> > > > >(which is a gem that is inimatable, in that one Eliot conforms to his
>own
> > > > >stricture on Shakespeare as not bequeathing a tradition) Prufock a
>bit
> > >(it's
> > > > >readable and has great lines, but also sounds like Philip Larkin on
> > >speed)
> > > > >and too the real problem: Sweeney Agonistes, which is probably the
>most
> > > > >original poem of twentieth century English literature but also a
> > >headache:
> > > > >it seems to combine American vernacular with the musical hall and
>British
> > > > >oddities about domestic sex-murders and Greek tragedy, there was, and
>is
> > > > >still not, anything like that, it's a misogynist masterpiece, in
>tatters,
> > > > >it's an embarrassment, and it's brilliant.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Best
> > > > >
> > > > >Dave
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