Yeah, Mark, I know WCW's big attempt was Paterson, which is a dull failure,
I have read it me ducks, but I think his big push, as a lyric poet, I'm one
meself so I do notice these things, was the 'Asphodel'. It starts well, but
it doesn't sustain itself, it's too I want to sell you something it's the
American way of life be a consumer in it's feel. The greedy baby narcissism,
which is the besetting sin of US literature, undermines it, rhythmically
WCW's threadbare technique exposes itself.
As I said before, the highlighting of WCW's fridge poem, I have eaten the
plums, so nice, fixes him, as the unwitting bard of consumer US-global
culture, the possession of fridges, as well as big gas-guzzling cars, was a
kind of selling point of US supremacy to the masses. I'm not being
anglo-centric in this, the UK was a willing and nowadays a very large
partner (now worldwar-recovered) in all this, dear sweet Aus is joining in
too, ( I've noticed the utter silence about the international festival of
shots for tv in the name of sport called the Commonwealth Games that has
just taken place in Melbourne, surely Alison should have noticed, I thought
one or two shots were actually taken from the Strand in Williamstown, and as
for Ireland, well, words fail me, to be sure)
Best
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Weiss" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 3:18 AM
Subject: Re: Help! The grass is singing
> Not best known that way among poets. And he was more than a little
> red in his politics. "His big attempt..." is simply inacurate. To the
> very limited extent he thought that way it would probably be
> Paterson. Sorry you can't hear the music.
>
> Eliot has few children in America and has become something of an
> artifact of the past, even among those who love the poems. Williams
> fathered tribes and remains contemporary for many.
>
> Mark
>
>
> At 09:04 PM 3/28/2006, you wrote:
> >Have read them Mark. Seriously, and you know I can do 'funnin' just as
well
> >as you, I think the problem with Williams is rhythmical, in that he's not
> >working against anything, even at his best. This applies particulary to
'Of
> >Asphodel....' which I've always felt was his big attempt, I dunno,
> >artistically, to do something, you need resistance. Poor Wiilliams is
best
> >known for a short poem about stuff in the fridge and another about a
garden
> >implement. He became thereby the unwitting lareate of consumerism, think
> >about it.
> >
> >I have this notion that WCW would have a lovely bloke to have met, EP
would
> >have been strange but likeable, TSE would have been 'how unpleasant to
meet
> >Mr Eliot' but also in a different league.
> >
> >Best
> >
> >Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Mark Weiss" <[log in to unmask]>
> >To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:49 AM
> >Subject: Re: Help! The grass is singing
> >
> >
> > > I would suggest you take a look at the sequence "Spring and All" and
> > > the late poems "Of Asphodel the Greeny Flower" and "The Desert
> > > Music." Might help you see the stones in what you call fluff. And
> > > then read the rest of Williams. I have my arguments with him, but
> > > he's pretty much universally considered, after Dickinson and Whitman,
> > > the essential forebear by members of almost all camps in this
> > > benighted territory.
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > >
> > > At 08:00 PM 3/28/2006, you wrote:
> > > >it was only a "we" for fun on happy poets -
> > > >
> > > >i like what you say about eliot's weirdness & your description makes
> > > >Sweeney A sound very appealing - I'll go & read it soonest
> > > >
> > > >Edmund
> > > >
> > > >Do 'we' think of Eliot as 'not happy' and Williams as being so? This
> > > >particular part of 'we' doesn't look at things in that way at all.
> >Williams
> > > >certainly can seem fluffy compared to the cold weird and brilliant
Eliot.
> > > >The best Eliot poems, such as (of course) The Waste Land, Mr
Appolinax
> > > >(which is a gem that is inimatable, in that one Eliot conforms to his
own
> > > >stricture on Shakespeare as not bequeathing a tradition) Prufock a
bit
> >(it's
> > > >readable and has great lines, but also sounds like Philip Larkin on
> >speed)
> > > >and too the real problem: Sweeney Agonistes, which is probably the
most
> > > >original poem of twentieth century English literature but also a
> >headache:
> > > >it seems to combine American vernacular with the musical hall and
British
> > > >oddities about domestic sex-murders and Greek tragedy, there was, and
is
> > > >still not, anything like that, it's a misogynist masterpiece, in
tatters,
> > > >it's an embarrassment, and it's brilliant.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Best
> > > >
> > > >Dave
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