>I like to remind them that the US was what we call a
> third world country until WWII (and in some places still is).
>
> Mark
Parts of Northern England (Burnley for instance), Scotland, and Wales
probably fall or veer on or in the same category too
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Weiss" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: help--translation query
> Thanks for this, Lawrence. When people go on to me about the cultural
> vices that keep people in living in what we call "third world
> conditions" I like to remind them that the US was what we call a
> third world country until WWII (and in some places still is).
>
> Mark
>
> At 05:10 AM 3/11/2006, you wrote:
> >I've heard that, Mark. The only mine I 've been down had a gift shop
> >attached. (That was enough for me. Granite leaks, you know; so as
> >well as being bent double in total lack of light apart from a
> >candle, cold water is more than dripping over you all the time. And
> >there are some unpleasant things dissolved in it from lodes, which
> >wouldn't do you any good over a period. I went to the lowest level -
> >to be told later that was still the upper levels - it went deeper
> >and narrower many times that depth - hundreds of feet. The pity was
> >that they had renamed this place, at Wendron, from whatever it had
> >been to Poldark Mine, after the Winston Graham novels)
> >
> >I think that sweet / savoury story was, if true, of the more
> >affluent, though it wasn't necessarily apparently more work or
> >cost... Availability and purchaseability of materials does come into
> >it But there was intense poverty here. One still gets a sense of
> >some of it walking around and inferring from ruins - soil floors,
> >pressed earth walls, one up one down with a ladder only often, tiny,
> >no internal plumbing. And that was well off.
> >
> >There's a book called - I think - Tremedda Days... This concerns as
> >I recall the daughter of the family that occupied the house
> >(forgotten the name - Talland House?) occupied by V Woolf, still
> >here, from which she viewed the lighthouse she moved nominally to
> >Scotland...Said daughter, clearly of prosperous circumstances,
> >decided she was in want of a trad Cornish farm. They sent her to
> >Italy for a year to make her normal and she came home unchanged. So
> >they bought her a small farm to teach her a lesson and in due course
> >she married a farmer, combined farms, made babies with this guy who
> >hardly ever spoke in public, kept the farm going, appeared entirely
> >content with the farm and her family... Died without public trace
> >beyond one small part of west penwith
> >
> >The book tells the story in so far as its known such as it is. A few
> >facts, a few photos. D H Lawrence, one time local, might have done
> >something with it, by way of an imaginary turbuilent passionate
> >internal life; but there's precious little history
> >
> >Anyway I mention it because of the social and geographical
> >incidentals. One labourer in particular appeared to live in
> >something not that different to a prehistoric burial cyst - a few
> >stones in place added to and a bit of timber. That was his home...
> >
> >Of course industry brought improvements as well as being the cause
> >of the need for improvements - particular workers attracted by the
> >offer of then modern housing etc.; - tho internal WCs have clearly
> >been added on where I am - built for railway builders in the 1870s -
> >and by the time all industry was collapsing there was some
> >welfare... Nevertheless, even before then, this area had the highest
> >19th century emigration of anywhere in europe, numeric or percentage
> >- some would have been in the hope of riches primarily; but most was
> >because life was economically intolerable
> >
> >I think for the most of the agricultural population life was pretty
> >dire by our reckoning - even those with work at Holman's, the
> >engineers, developing out of Trevithick's inventing, and the big
> >mines, it's the old story. A few owners getting rich. Same with the
> >fishing on which St Ives grew. And it all went wrong in about half a
> >century - in a quarter of a century, Scilly - the poorest
> >inhabitants without adequate means before economic development
> >having been removed to a mainland poorhouse - built up a little
> >industry servicing and chandlering the boats from America, still the
> >best place I know to buy interesting rope and cord - while news
> >came from Penzance about the best mainland port to go to; and on the
> >back of that a boat-building industry. Then came radio, and Scilly
> >was bypassed except as a small and pointless garrison. And my
> >grandad went to London; and his brother to Canada. Multiplied by the
> >number of families
> >
> >Oh dear. You only asked about sweet and savoury. I am in elegiac
> >mode. My tenure of this space is ending soon and I have no immediate
> >solution... Exit to packing pursued by regrets
> >
> >Do try saffron cake
> >
> >
> >L
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
> > Date: Friday, March 10, 2006 10:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: help--translation query
> >
> >
> > Lawrence: I read somewhere, or maybe Robin H or David B told me, that
> > the pasties the miners took below often had two pocyhes, one for the
> > savory, one for the sweet. Equally healthy, I'd suspect.
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