Simon, you read me right. I've been sat back monitoring this discussion,
the thread mats started was the way I had understood we'd decided to go
with oats anyway.
Like simon reiterates the current issues I raised are about the
logistics of hosting lots of projects with the current lack of
automation and infrastructure on that side.... But we need to come back
to the idea that this is only a pilot. I think it is safe to conclude
from the discussions that oats has to support forges hosted anywhere on
anything, plone then acts as a proxy between developers and users; but
we should be promoting the oats forge as portal for a community of AT
floss developers: a. to engage with each other, b. to engage with users,
and c. to find lots of potential projects - all of which are not
available (yet) on sourceforge or other equivalents. Yes, we know our
forge isn't ideal right now, but the potential is there to see - we must
asap close this discuss and start to build this into the exit strategy,
and I feel a key part of this will be just having a few demo projects
open on the repository.
I'm concerned we are getting less prepared for the launch rather than
more so. My own personal feeling is the that launch should be launch of
a demonstration portal & concept (enough to bring in experts like
sourceforge etc to say - okay we get what you want to do... We'll
provide you with x,y,z...), rather than the launch of an actual full
service that we seem to be discussing.
I'm keen to hear what Stephen / Andrew of ACE are thinking.
Andy.
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask]
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Judge Simon
Sent: 20 March 2006 16:53
To: 'OATs Project Special Interest Group'
Subject: RE: [oats-sig] Oatsoft Pre-launch final changes
I think we are up to hosting project, most definitely.... Andy's issue
earlier was about future effort since currently setup is manual. Unless
I read him wrong. I don't see that the management/funding/setup of the
forge side is any different to the base cost particularly, other than
automating or doing by hand the (small number of) subversion setup
requests.
We really need to _not_ push out the forge, we have prioritised the user
side admittedly and the line is blurred between the two at the moment
(no bad thing actually), but that's just a lack of documentation/content
(again, I appeal!)... I'll try and add some more content this week
too...
Cheers
Simon
Clinical Scientist
ACT
0121 627 1627 ex 53245
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask]
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jason Work
Sent: 20 March 2006 14:40
To: 'OATs Project Special Interest Group'
Subject: RE: [oats-sig] Oatsoft Pre-launch final changes
>From the point of view of bringing the user and the developer closer
together that is up to the project in Sourceforge. It provides space
for a project homepage or you can link to a web site hosted elsewhere.
This can be accessible as required.
I worry that perhaps wanting to host our own forge may mean we do not
use our limited resources in the best way. I think we need to look at
building community of developers and give them some projects to work on.
The community of users is going well. We need then to work out the best
way to get both communities working together.
If we could have two or three projects that we could try to find
developers for that used a number of different technologies then we
could work on managing these projects. If the OATS forge is not up to
hosting them yet then we should consider other options with the homepage
hosted on OATS.
>From a user perceptive they would get the OATS look and feel while we
>could
let developers access things via Sourceforge or another open source
forge.
This would allow us to spend time of the development of the communities
and not having to worry about how to fund, manage and maintain a forge.
Jason
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask]
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Judge Simon
Sent: 20 March 2006 13:54
To: 'OATs Project Special Interest Group'
Subject: RE: [oats-sig] Oatsoft Pre-launch final changes
Because:
A) it hasn't so far
B) it is explicitly aimed at developers, not end users
C) there is no facility for creating or establishing communities across
projects (just categories), unless I missed something.
D) it is not accessible (check out the w3c validation for your ticket:
http://tinyurl.com/nyl56 (-:
E) it doesn't bring the user and developer any closer together
F) well, why not give people dev tools somewhere other than
sourceforge/equivalents
That said, yes, cool, lets get an accessibility category, however, in
the spirit of 'there isn't necessarily one single right approach' lets
cross-link and encourage people to check out OATS and vice-versa... ?
Cheers
Simon
Clinical Scientist
ACT
0121 627 1627 ex 53245
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask]
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jonathan
Chetwynd
Sent: 16 March 2006 19:41
To: OATs Project Special Interest Group
Subject: Re: [oats-sig] Oatsoft Pre-launch final changes
Why do you say sourceforge wont do this?
what efforts have been made?
Surely if enough project were approached they'd roll over quietly, the
potential negative publicity would be horrendous.
anyway I've logged a ticket here:
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?
func=detail&aid=1451595&group_id=1&atid=200001
and of course comments are welcome ~:"
cheers
Jonathan Chetwynd
On 16 Mar 2006, at 18:35, Judge Simon wrote:
Hiya,
In general, remember, we never get things right first time and this is a
pilot project. The objective is to help us learn more about the
challenges of encouraging the Open Source development model within AT.
I strongly believe you can't learn without trying (well, I can't at
least!). That said, I think we've got a bloody good product and am
willing to start selling it and i'm not ashamed! Already this project
has got people thinking and had some productive spin offs.
Taking the points one by one:
Marketing speak - fine, fair point, please log on and change it
(someone) -
this site is collaborative! That said, I stand by the points, with
provisos (like any marketing statement it can be argued any way given
the right perspective).
How to add a project - check out:
http://www.oatsoft.org/Info/HowTos/SubmissionGuide/ . Again, if you find
something that could be worded differently or more helpfully please
comment/change. I am also aware of the need for further documentation
and content on the site to explain things like this. This was the
nature of my plea for help about 3/4 weeks ago. I also need to better
document the templates for adding projects, this is on Trac as a ticket.
Sourceforge - Yes there is a problem with sourceforge. We want to
develop a community of AT users and developers, sourceforge wont do
this.
Trac - see Andy's points. Trac isn't meant for end users particularly
and PloneBugTracker is installed for every project as an alternative. I
think it is a bit friendlier (though we are yet to formally decide to
change to this as a team). It also removes some of the automation issues
Andy was mentioning and we need to resolve the rest of these.
Anyway, hope that helps, we need all input, so keep it coming and bear
in mind i'm answering this after a long day of seeing clients!
I'll reiterate my plea for more content, and thanks to those who have
already added... Let's hope that we can get the ball rolling and
actually end up with a sustainable and valuable site.
(-;
Cheers
Simon
Clinical Scientist
ACT
0121 627 1627 ex 53245
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask]
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jonathan
Chetwynd
Sent: 16 March 2006 12:18
To: OATs Project Special Interest Group
Subject: Re: [oats-sig] Oatsoft Pre-launch final changes
Stephen,
Oats is maturing, however....
I'm concerned by the use of exaggerated claims such as:
>> The OATS project is the world's first site dedicated to Open
Source Assistive Technology Software.
and
>> The world's ONLY area dedicated to developing Assistive Technology
software.
these assertions aren't even close to the truth, and merely devalue the
product.
---
How to add a development project to Oats ?
e.g. Seascape: Communicate through drawing - An SVG editor with a GUI
designed for children and adults who are pre-literate.
https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=155197
Is there a problem with sourceforge? it's true that accessibility
doesn't get a huge plug, but sourceforge already took me a while to
handle ~:"
I did check the trac link but found there is no register button.... I
searched further and found >> Email me if you want access
([log in to unmask])
but this isn't a natural way to encourage growth.
Sorry Andy, no reflection on you...
---
It's a huge task, and I apologies for not having more encouraging
comments.
best wishes
Jonathan Chetwynd
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