Sure, maybe the mainstream press won't touch a book - but the author may not necessarily know that, and there's value to the process of finding that out.
I know plenty of people who've written for small presses (myself being one), and some who've worked on them. I've examined self-publication options for my own work. I've heard this all before - large publishers going the way of the dodo, the myopic publishing executives, the tales about Famous Author X who had to subsidize, the small press able to give authors personal attention. Some of it's true, don't get me wrong.
Given my experience, however, I think not including some firms on the list is perfectly fine. While a person can have a bad experience with any publisher, there's much more variation in terms of stability, professionalism, knowledge of the trade, and ethics in the very small presses and self-publishing firms. Sure, a bigger house can screw you over, but you don't have to worry about whether they've taken basic accounting, or whether they put the ISBN on the jacket, or whether someone you've never heard of getting sick or divorced means your book gets bumped back five years. Sure, there are wonderful small presses out there, but I'm not sure most new authors will be able to tell the difference between the good and the bad, and bad fortune can turn a good press bad literally overnight.
Thus, I have no trouble with guidelines that suggest some minimum requirements (such as listing in LMP) are necessary for inclusion, so long as they're applied consistently. I'd rather omit some quality presses that don't meet the guidelines than let in some of the people I've dealt with in the past.
Sin cerely,
Dan Harms
Coordinator of Instruction Librarian
State University of New York - Cortland
Memorial Library B-110
(607) - 753-4042
________________________________
From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic on behalf of DAVE EVANS
Sent: Fri 1/13/2006 6:05 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Favorite Occult Publishers? (a publisher is a publisher is a publisher')
yes to what Mogg said- i would also give the example of occultebooks.com, which kept some "cult-appeal" books 'in print' (as pdfs anyhow) for some years until POD services made it easier to have them back in print, which they now are, on The Mouse That Spins imprint (among others)
and in our area, of weird subjects, many a publisher will not touch the content anyway, so "vanity" is not necessarily an accurate view; there comes a point when the stack of rejection letters gets so high that self-publication is the most sensible option
just my 2p worth
dave
Mogg Morgan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Dear Friends
i think there is a confusion over terminology here - a 'vanity press' is not imo the
same a 'self-publication' - I don't think anyone has suggested one of the established 'vanity presses' -
although they do vary in technique and that could be some argument for recommending
one of the better ones and advising on how to get the best out of it - should you be 'foolish' enough to go that way.
! But really their work is largely now superceded by new technology such as print on demand - which all mainstream presses are now using and is accessble by pretty much anyone who can register an isbn. But reading the thread seems like some small presses such as Fulgur were being viewed as 'self-publication' and excluded - which seemed a bit odd to me. Incidentally many mainstream presses do now keep an eye on the self-published product - which contrary to what was said, is often really good. Several notable recent successes have been picked up in this way - and even Waterstones and Googleprint have projects with self-publication - so at the very least we shouldn't be more conservative than the mainstream industry at a time when things changing so fast?
'love and do what you will'
mogg
: ) .....................................: )
Mandrake.uk.net
Publishers
PO Box 250, Oxford, OX1 1AP
+44 1865 243671
homepage: <http://www.mandrake.uk.net <http://www.mandrake.uk.net/> >
Blogs =
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secure page for credit card <http://www.mandrake.uk.net/books.htm>
-----Original Message-----
From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Caelum Rainieri
Sent: 12 January 2006 22:34
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Favorite Occult Publishers? (a publisher is a publisher is a publisher'
Hi Mogg,
In my opinion, adding vanity presses to the OAM simply adds filler with little value. Any vanity press will publish any book, regardless of content. It's sort of like watching a low budget movie that was written and directed by the same person. In almost every case, it su! ffers from a lack of editing and pacing. In my opinion, it's the same with many self-published books. The process of building a proposal, submitting it, refining it, getting acquired, and working with an editor is, in my opinion, extremely valuable for many first-time authors. None of that happens with subsidy presses.
Having said all that, I do agree that the publishing world is changing thanks to the Internet. Amazon and eBay have cut into the publishing industry's profits by offering "used" versions of books within days of a new book's release. Many technical authors that I know, who have been published by Wiley, O'Reilly, Ch! arles River Media, and other large publishers, are considering publishing their own work and selling it via Lulu or their own website. The OAM will be sold that way, at least for the first year or two, since it's much too thin to meet the page requirements of many publishers (the first edition will be less than 50 page! s), and there's no way to get a 2006 edition out via a traditional publisher time-wise.
So sure, there's some excellent self-published work out there, but no guide is needed to find vanity presses. Their ads appear on every Google page that has the word "publish" in the search window.
Caelum
Mogg Morgan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Dear all
to paraphrase gertrude stein:
'a publisher is a publisher is a publisher'
ie! I'm not sure it's really legitimate to exclude some houses on the
suggested criteria -
Even the supposed stricture of being a 'tied' or 'self-publishing' private
press
doesn't seem to me to be that important -
as long as they do good books people want to read -
they are publishers as far as i'm concerned -
Afterall many distinguished authors started this way - usually because
the existing houses were too short-sighted to do it -
hence W B Yeats, Roddy Doyle etc started as self published.
And indeed many academic presses, some quite large, ask for a
large subsidy from the author -
and this is particularly common with scientific monographs.
I believe that even Charles Darwin made a large financial
contribution to the cost of first publication of 'the origin of species' -
The copyright libraries don't discriminate on this basis
so not sure why anyone else would want to?
'love and do what you will'
mogg morgan
-----Original Message-----
From: Mogg Morgan [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 11 January 2006 08:25
To: Society for The Academic Study of Magic
Subject: RE: Favorite Occult Publishers?
dear Frierich
Well Llewellyn's have their moments -
Weiser's perhaps not as it was! since the change of ownership.
- there are one or two pearls among a lot of you know what ; )
Personally i think the non-corporates are the ones to watch -
Although Chicago UP has some fine books -
Amongst USA houses i think Feral House is really cool -
In UK - Capall Bann have some good ones although maybe have too much not so
good
- but perhaps thats their strategy - to give lots of new obscure writers a
chance.
'love and do what you will'
mogg
PS: I think one of the disappointing things about some of the 'pop-wiccan'
press is that it seems to be almost totally in the pocket of the
corporat! ions - and this seems to me to be an abdication of good journalistic
standards. For example, a recent edition of a well known pop-wicca fanzine
only had reviews of corporate product - including two books by Terry
Pratchet - now he may be a wonderful author - but at a time when his books
are reviewed absolutely everywhere - due t! o the huge marketing clout of his
publisher - what's the point of yet another plug (same goes for Harry Potter
etc)? IMO you're letting your readers down if you just tell them about stuff
they can buy in any drug store or supermarket??
: ) .....................................: )
Mandrake.uk.net
Publishers
PO Box 250, Oxford, OX1 1AP
+44 1865 243671
homepage:
Blogs =
http://mogg-morgan.blogspot.com
http://mandox.blogspot.com
secure page for credit card
-----Original Message-----
From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Johann
Friedrich Wolfgang Hasler
Sent: 11 January 2006 11:34
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Favorite Occult Publishers?
Dare I say it? In this list, in this context? Well, why not... my favourite
is Llewellyn. I also enjoy th! e books by Samuel Weiser
Johann Hasler
PhD candidate
International Centre for Music Studies
University of Newcastle Upon Tyne
________________________________
De: Society for The Academic Study of Magic en nombre de Caelum Rainieri
Enviado el: lun 09/01/2006 15:46
Asunto: Favorite Occult Publishers?
Hi All:
I've launched a new project entitled the 2006 Occult Authors Market, which
will feature Writers Market-type entries for U.S. and European book
publishers that offer titles in the categories of magic(k), divination,
shamanism, etc. It'll contain information that prospective aut! hors are
concerned about, such as submission guidelines, advances & royalties (where
available), contact information, etc.
If you have any favorite publishers in this genre, including academic
publishers, please let me know. This guide will be ready by Feb 6, and I'd
like to include your recommendations in it.
Thanks,
Caelum Rainieri
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