Dear Sally, how I wish that in coming to Plath's poetry one could leave 
behind all that history of the Hughes/Plath highly impassioned, brilliant 
and destructive marriage and lives. It's like having very objectionable mud 
clinging to one's feet!
I think Sylvia was a brilliant poet and has left us a legacy of some truly 
remarkable, searing, and extraordinary poems - "love set you going like a 
fat gold watch" I wish my mother had written that for me!
I imagine it was not an easy time for a female poet to get the recognition 
she deserved, but I agree with you that she was indeed a "very highly able 
poet".
best wishes,
sincerely,
Gill
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "sally evans" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: discussion topic: -digression on Hughes/Plath - Colin


>I don't think the Plath-Hughes interest is about the combination of Plath
> and Hughes so much as about feminism.
> Without the juxtaposition making the myth, Ted wd have been a good poet of
> the old kind, and Sylvia would have been a great [feminist/woman] poet of
> the new kind - and she'd have been even more important if she had lived, 
> as
> I think she was a very highly able poet indeed.
> What I think happened, is that as a woman, at the time she could only
> succeed by getting into a group of men, and being potentially such a great
> poet she went for a very good poet in Ted, but she was even better. So 
> they
> represent in myth form, feminism taking over from the male hierarchy [in 
> the
> arts].
> cheers
> SallyE
>
>
> on 4/3/06 1:08 pm, Colin Dewar at [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
>> Yes it's interesting what co-existence can do. It just seems to be the 
>> case
>> that if poets are brought into proximity (whether or not literally) they 
>> can
>> stimulate each other. They also serve to bolster each others repuations, 
>> as
>> in many industries. Take Sylvia Plath and Ted Hughes. Whatever you think
>> about their relationship or the relative merits of their work, they are
>> likley to last longer than either on their own. People who take interst 
>> in
>> one of them can't help learning about the life and work of the other.
>>
>> Thank you for expressing your opinions regarding other joint efforts. I'm
>> more familar with Tom Pow than the authors you mention. One poem of his I
>> like in particular, "The Flower" from "The Moth Trap", with it's handling 
>> of
>> text and sub-text. It's an example of what the metaphor can do, if it's
>> pushed.
>>
>> Colin
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Gill McEvoy" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 9:34 AM
>> Subject: Re: discussion topic: series of poems/Gill
>>
>>
>>> Hi Colin, it's good to know you read 'Sparks' too. I really enjoy these
>>> dialogue works. Did you know John Burnside ( whose work I really admire)
>>> and Andy Brown have a forthcoming volume, I imagine in similar vein,
>>> called 'Goose Music', to be published by Salt? It's interesting to see
>>> what friendship among poets triggers: I think of Edward Thomas and 
>>> Robert
>>> Frost, Wordsworth and Coleridge...
>>> sincerely,
>>> Gill
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Colin Dewar" <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 4:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: discussion topic: series of poems/Gill
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yes, I've read the Hendry/Pow combo you refer to and enjoyed many 
>>>> parts.
>>>> It occurred to me as I was reading it that many sequentially written
>>>> poems unintentionally make a series. If a poet has certain themes that
>>>> s/he returns to then there is a certain amount of complimentarity built
>>>> in as you move from page to page. The reader gets the benefit of their
>>>> obsession. That's the kind of poetry I like to read, where there's an
>>>> identifiable current running through it. It's among the reasons why I
>>>> find anthologies heavy going.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Colin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Gill McEvoy" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 12:59 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: discussion topic: series of poems
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hello everyone, this discussion makes me think of Mimi Khalvati's
>>>>> "Entries on light" which is a book full of linked untitled poems that
>>>>> together make a long meditation on aspects of light. I found it
>>>>> wonderful.
>>>>> But I do have to admit that when I pick up a poetry magazine I read 
>>>>> the
>>>>> short ones first! (Coming back to the longer ones later).
>>>>> May I add to this discussion by asking if anyone has read "Sparks"
>>>>> (Diana Hendry and Tom Pow), a record of a twelve month series of poem
>>>>> challenges that they set each other plus the resultant poems. I find
>>>>> dialogues between poets very interesting. (Ted Kooser did a similar
>>>>> thing in the form of a correspondence with another American poet). I
>>>>> love challenges but don't always manage to rise to them as well as I'd
>>>>> like (find this Forum quite challenging, and apologies if I don't
>>>>> succeed in responding to all of the new subs...)
>>>>> And also why is it hard for a jointly penned poem to get published? I
>>>>> ran a workshop based on Elma Mitchell's poem "Lifecycle of the Moth" 
>>>>> in
>>>>> which the poet uses only the common names of the moths to tell a 
>>>>> story.
>>>>> We used the names of flowers and birds to make a story-poem and 2 
>>>>> people
>>>>> (we worked in pairs as I only had a few flower books/ bird books)
>>>>> produced a stunning poem called "Clinton's Lily" which they can't seem
>>>>> to get published under 2 names. Any advice?
>>>>> best wishes to everyone,
>>>>> Gill
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "sally evans" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:32 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: discussion topic: series of poems
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> on 20/2/06 4:26 pm, Bob Cooper at [log in to unmask] wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Matt writes:
>>>>>>> "to open up another discussion point, what has been everybody's
>>>>>>> experiences
>>>>>>> of writing poem sequences like this?"
>>>>>>> and he goes on: "As well as the discipline that James mentions, it
>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>> offer an opportunity to allow poems to work off each other, but I
>>>>>>> suppose it
>>>>>>> carries its own risks, such as repetition. I ask because I've been
>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>> on a series of linked poems and prose pieces about a very obscure
>>>>>>> historical
>>>>>>> character, and have found it both more difficult than writing
>>>>>>> 'occasional'
>>>>>>> poems, but also more rewarding in many ways. I'd be interested to 
>>>>>>> hear
>>>>>>> people's thoughts."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Matt (and all else who're reading this),
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I, too, find myself wanting to write poems that are in a series. I
>>>>>>> find,
>>>>>>> however, I'm not too disciplined in how I approach it. I don't, for
>>>>>>> instance, map out the issues/themes/topics I feel important to cover
>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>> series, I just write one and then another - then put them in a
>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>> order and start wondering about how to fill in the gaps!
>>>>>>> I guess, because we're conditioned to read and write short poems - 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> long poem has fallen from favour - narrative poetry, as a genre, 
>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>>> sequences or series of poems.
>>>>>>> I wonder, sometimes, about the attention span of readers of poetry.
>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>> that's why I feel happier reading a series of short, self-contained,
>>>>>>> poems
>>>>>>> that have subtle links, and underlying impressions that rise to the
>>>>>>> surface
>>>>>>> when I discover them, but I'm daunted when faced with a poem that 
>>>>>>> goes
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> for pages and pages. However...
>>>>>>> It could be that short poems are like nibbling chocolate, or eating
>>>>>>> oranges
>>>>>>> (for rhyming poems) or plums(from the icebox in the fridge), whereas 
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> series of poems is like a 5 course meal with lots of things in each
>>>>>>> course,
>>>>>>> and a fine wine or two (and even with sherry before and port - or a
>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>> good Malt! - afterwards!).
>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>
>
>
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