just a quick note of clarification - i did not 'moderate in by hand' 
philip's reply to roger.
philip wrote his email reply to roger, and cc-ed it to the crumb list 
as well as to peter weibel, as you can see below.
the reason it did not appear on crumb itself but appeared in roger's 
reply to philip, also cc'ed to crumb and peter weibel, is because 
philip wrote it from an account which is not subscribed to crumb 
([log in to unmask]). therefore it was rejected from the crumb list 
automatically. roger obviously had no way of knowing that when he 
'replied to all.'
these are technicalities but important ones.
roger understood that philip's email was already public as it had the 
crumb list in its cc'ed list of recipients, as i did too.
i have never claimed, and never will, that either beryl or i 'curate' 
the crumb list.
more soon,
sarah


On 24 Jun 2006, at 1:23 AM, [log in to unmask] wrote:

> hello crumb list
>
> i am writing you from my crumb subscription address. the post 
> attributed
> to me below is not to the list but to roger malina. i used my zkm 
> adress
> and its not not my t-online mailing list account. there i also read
> film-philosphy. sarah must have moderated it in by hand.
>>

<snip>

>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: philip pocock < [log in to unmask]>
>> Date: Jun 21, 2006 8:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: malicious representation
>> To: roger malina
>> Cc: [log in to unmask] , [log in to unmask]
>>
>> dear roger
>> i understand from your first post to crumb that you had an absolutely
>> without-a-doubt horrendous and perhaps malicious experience with
>> ridiculous porn and your very good name. it is i am sure harrowing and
>> hard to trust online intentions with such an experience. i am really
>> sorry that that has ever been a part of your online experience and can
>> assure you that there is no reason to imagine from my reading peter's
>> post and the spaceplace team intent is anything other than honorable
>> and innovative, and in the best sense, laboratory playfulness.
>>
>> there is no 'appearance that certain artists were active
>> participants.'
>> from orbit.zkm.de
>>
>> "Submitted by konstantin.tsio... on Tue, 2006-03-28 23:39."
>> "Submitted by galileo.galilei on Fri, 2006-04-07 02:49."
>> "Submitted by johannes.kepler on Tue, 2006-04-25 01:12."
>> "Submitted by andy.warhol on Mon, 2006-03-20 17:24."
>> "Submitted by vincent.vangogh on Tue, 2006-03-21 22:33."
>>
>> there are dozens more of these deceased 'orbitants' connected to
>> living ones through keywords that expand the field of practise of
>> space artists.
>>
>> fred hughes hired me as photographer to photograph every scrap of
>> paper, sketch, photobooth selfportrait, mao sketch, cat aphorism, and
>> every single article in andy warhol's inner sanctum at the factory
>> right after he died in 1984. i was hired as i was sworn not to leak
>> any photos of the archiving work i did then, although the press of
>> course and other artists were curious. i respect andy's privacy, what
>> photos he keeps in his drawers, and yet his 'orbitant' writes the
>> spaceplace bio in the first person (or quasi-first person):
>> Born as Andrew Warhola in 1928 in Pittsburgh, I moved to New York in
>> 1949, where I became one of the country's leading commercial artists.
>> By the end of the '50s I turned my attention to fine art and by the
>> '60s I was exhibiting my Pop paintings and sculpture - including the
>> now-famous Brillo Boxes, Marilyns and Campbell's Soup Cans - in New
>> York and Los Angeles. The exhibition shows iconic works from the
>> 1950s, '60s, and '70s, including early pop portraits, cow wallpaper,
>> cloud pillows, skulls, disaster paintings, films and source material.
>> It provides a unique opportunity for people to see the full spectrum
>> of work by one of the most influential artists of the late 20 th
>> century, who created new ways of looking at both art and life.
>>
>> this and the dozens and dozens of deceased first person 'playful' bios
>> are more than enough assurance of intent.
>>
>> and for the brain dead guest, on every single spaceplace page, we
>> state:
>> all information on this web 'mashup' is art. any similarity to
>> earthlings is purely artistic.
>>
>> that has also been added to every email sent to new members, although
>> it is in my view almost too much. peter is certainly being sure that
>> all steps are taken to answer your concerns completely.
>>
>> as well spaceplace is not published. it is mashed up. in peter's mail
>> response he expressed his position were traditional media such as
>> books involved. sure there remains a touch of provocation but that is
>> part and parcel of net art.
>>
>> for instance, in 1997 when documenta 10 produced my internat art work
>> in africa, a young eastern european artist vuc cosic 'whacked'
>> basically stole the entire documenta x web site. he loaded it only his
>> server and took control. never did it enter my mind that his purpose
>> was malicious. in fact it's still up today.
>>
>> google documenta done:
>>
>> result:
>>
>> documenta X - Welcome
>> art, exhibition, exposition, kunst, Ausstellung, live video, real
>> audio, net art, Kassel, documenta X, dX, dokumenta, X, web projects,
>> artist projects, ...
>> www.ljudmila.org/~vuk/dx/  - 3k -
>> Cached - Similar pages
>>
>> if you google 'cosic' and 'documenta done' you find descriptions of it
>> like: "Vuk Cosic's hijack of the Documenta X web sit" and yet i know
>> his intent and its fun. its young. its the net. its not shocking. or
>> theft.
>>
>> and whatismore, Leonardo even praised vuk cosic's 'identity theft,' in
>> an article still online, and high on the google result page, position
>> 3: Leonardo 35.5, October 2002
>> Digital Salon
>> # Cosic, Vuk. Documenta Done
>> [Access article in PDF]
>> Subjects:
>> * Cosic, Vuk. Documenta done [web site]
>> http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/leonardo/toc/len35.5.html
>>
>> that page is still online. it is the best precedent there is to find
>> our common ground.
>>
>>
>> and here from the server of your CRUMB list, sarah's server -
>> sunderland in the uk:
>> Vuk Cosic presentation. Vuk Cosic is an artist [see bio]. ... I will
>> be showing 'Documenta Done'
>> www.newmedia.sunderland.ac.uk/balticseminar/cosic.htm
>> he made a career out of his 'identity theft' . it's been shown at the
>> ICC, you name it, every major outlet. and the key content is my work.
>> he never asked me. why? because its his work. and every cogent person
>> understands his intention and his humor and his art.
>>
>>
>>
>> again i can understand that you had a horrible personal experience
>> with your being characterized as a sleazy pornwriter in online space
>> some years back as you informed the Crumb list in a mail, and creative
>> scientists are if not moreso as passionate as the general public and
>> affected as much or more by such things. i would be too. but art is
>> art - period.
>>
>> please let's move on and do things! there is no time to lose. an art
>> satellite could become a reality if we move or another victim of the
>> person who traumatized your trust in online intentions. lets listen to
>> john lennon 'imagine there's no hell, above you only sky.'
>>
>> here a site that 'stole my identity' not once but twice, as i had two
>> projects in documenta, and it makes me laugh:
>>
>> http://www.ljudmila.org/~vuk/dx/
>> and what is more it was one of my projects that convinced catherine
>> david to even include the net in her show. the curator of that piece i
>> made as well became her net curator. and still i was not upset in the
>> slightest because eastern european contemporary art has a certain
>> intent which clearly is not malicious. neither is zkm.
>>
>>
>> with respect, philip

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