Dear all

Many thanks Gina for this heady piece of reflection. The iterative
process itself seems to be a poignant echo of the actual mutating bodies
we witness as spectator/ auditors of SPINE.

Thanks also for the falling bodies - 9/11 clarification - you certainly
weren't expected to respond to that one in the icy magic of the opening
evening  and it was more an open musing from Jacques about how our
vision of bodily fragility might have been changed by those images of
falling bodies of a few years back. I think the quality of suspension
your work attains is evocative of so many layers of imagery that are
woven into our ex-flying-reptile minds, right up to this horrifically
recent image of people in the heart of our "civilised" world escaping an
inferno through fatal last flights. A shockingly desperate "choice" as
you say.

Need time to read and ruminate and am hugely grateful for this input -
this list is a wonderful meeting place.

Best
sjn



>-----Original Message-----
>From: gina czar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
>Sent: 23 March 2006 12:41
>To: honor; Sally Jane Norman; 
>[log in to unmask]; David Metcalfe
>Subject: Re: The Audible and the Visible
>
>Dear all - Honor thank you for cc ing this to me
>
>Id just like to say that I appreciate the understanding of the 
>depth of process lying behind spine and yes in a way without 
>the sound I have described the 'image plane' as being surface 
>- the image being the way in to a different state and this 
>being one of the reasons why I work with the
>(naked) human body, peripheral vision and aesthetic beauty.  I 
>think that the brevitty of the information on a website can 
>not / does not give full justice to a very onerous process 
>that has taken place from late 2003  - years of multiple edits 
>on-going communications initially with Christian Fennesz the 
>composer who made the sound track for the cinema single screen 
>work from which some of spine originates - Nascent.  This 
>sound I worked with and then re-sculpted. I took elements - 
>notes or single second sections from noise by Darrin Verhargen 
>and sculpted these into the Fennesz work and then re-mixed - 
>all in all this would total some 17 itterations of the work 
>collaborating very closely on the sound and image construction.
>
>I think that whats been written about not needing to know 
>process and technique but this being intrinsic to the entire 
>piece is apt, I think that ultimately work which exists in 
>such a public space is mostlyjudged on what it looks and 
>sounds like however I really appreciate Kelli and Beryls 
>comments regarding the complexity and collaborative working in 
>a interdisciplinary team. - and thanks to all the people who 
>relayed their and the passers-by comments.  Its really for me 
>about the total experience of being in the piece. Im 
>interested in the tones, notes and for what durations specific 
>parts of anatomy are effected by sound.  Works of this scale 
>and nature are very hard to reherse and make weather resistant 
>(a blizzard at -5 in newcastle that froze the projector which 
>kamal /forma had to then nurse with hot air blowers for 4hrs 
>before projection kick off each night ) additionaly people 
>would be reluctant to hang around for the full 20 min cycle in 
>these conditions)
>
>Although I was really pleased to see the work on that scale 
>and in that specific  space there are itterations that Id like 
>to take forward - I have reformatted the work to make it for a 
>more traditional  gallery/controllable space - no ambient 
>light so more total immersion in image and with 5:1 surround 
>sound.  There are so many nuances and detail that I spent many 
>all-nighter sessions on which are just not visible with so 
>much accompaniment (ambient light sound ).  - but I guess that 
>this is often the artists frustration with any completed work.
>
>In a previous pieces I had been single frame cutting, 
>rendering and re-mapping onto existing layers - from this 
>process for spine I, together with Stephen Dixon developed 
>numerous bespoke expressions - or programming of bespoke 
>filters that labour save on the single frame cutting and 
>allowed me to spend the time taking this much further. These 
>filters/expressions/prpgrammes have included string vibration 
>and field flickering String works the image like the pinging 
>of a guitar string with variation in anchor points and 
>frequency and field flicker makes it possible to see 50 felds 
>of image- twice which our PAL eye is accustomed to seeing in 
>video/television  and rather than seeing 2 image cut together 
>as we would see if single frame edited in  1/2/1/2/1/2/1 
>method - instead we see two continuous streams of real time 
>apparently uncut motion blending together.
>-
>The image of two dancers is repeated by another set of two 
>dancers performing an identical phrase and these are then 
>mapped onto one antther , rescaled, shaped masked from the 
>background and rotated and are then spread in 3d space to form 
>the first grid structure which is hundreds of layers of 
>uncompressed footage reworked, reshaped and re-timed.
>All of this was then reworked an d colour sculpted with damien 
>blythe to work with optimum resolution for various screen requirements
>
>Im saying this because I know im speaking to an expert list 
>and I really havent had muc h time or opportunity really to 
>talk specifically about this work, so now im enjoying talking- 
>so thank you.
>
>The collaboration I have with biologists, epidemiologists, 
>geneticists is on-going but outcomes are perhaps more apparent 
>in other projects (Silvers Alter and work in progress 
>contagion. Aswell as seemingly life-time interest and some 
>understanding of the evolution, bioogy and sociology and 
>psychology of what we describe as life (and also where and why 
>we have chosen where to draw lines, make definition or 
>polarise and rub out the middle in this
>terminology) 
>
>Sally Jane asked a question on the opening regarding the 
>relationship or association of the falling figures to 9/11 - 
>apologies Sally Jane but I was rather non-communicative at 
>that point - perhaps I can expand on this at the end 
>
>I would also like to take this opportunity to thank all of 
>those people involved in making, organising, producing and 
>presenting spine -
>
>
>And if possible can I subscribe to the list?
>
>And a brief ad....spines next (known) showing is as part of 
>the laneways public art projects here in melbourne in july-august 06
>
>
>Al the very best
>Gina
> 
>Re ref to 9./11
>
>The ideas were never intended to directly reference people 
>falling in fear or panic. That said the since 911,  we see the 
>world and all around us increasingly with new associations and 
>free to make own interpretations.
>Yes falling or ascending bodies through space may be 
>associated with suicidal bodies however the time based nature 
>of the images (the speed of the fall  physical gravitational 
>illusion mostly takes these figures away from real movement 
>into the realm of the manipulated. The physical properties 
>associated with the movement of falling are in all but one 
>sequence removed. I mentioned to you that it was about chioce 
>- The people choosing to jump rather than burn in  9/11 is a 
>shocking state of desperation and the images are resounding 
>and stay with us. I can not say that this is not contained 
>within the work but rather than re-instate in our 
>consciousness the association with the human terror and this 
>being captured and replayed to us real time and as a document 
>- the repetition clarified the real event, repetition in this 
>case takes the images into and entirely different realm. Our 
>choice of association or what has become the dominant image, 
>the controlling aestehtic, its instant interpretation - a symbol
>
>The inspiration behind the construction of the human spine 
>through isolated descending and ascending images support of 
>structure the architecture of the human body, the sperate 
>organisms forming a superstructure or super organism. 
>Unification. Ourselves not as one individual but as a united 
>whole, a super organism seen from a distance we are all the 
>same and our behaviour can be mapped into patterns - Primo 
>Levi wrote of the view of the world from another planet - 
>patterns of dark shapes around central nodes that disperse and 
>retract at specific points that were peoples movements into 
>and out of the city on a regular cycle - clusters and patterns 
>of movement. Where individual identity is lost or irrelevant,.
>It takes approximately 3 mins for the images to merge into 
>what from a distance may appear like a spine structure in its 
>initial stages.
>
> ascending / descending of separate indentifiable bodies is 
>only for a small part of the imagery- at a point nearing the 
>end I use multiple bodies falling in 3 dimensions and the 
>camera appears to move through this - these are tiny bodies 
>and from a distance appear  (to me), as if rain.
>
>
>
>On 22/3/06 10:44 AM, "honor" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>> Dear Friends on Crumb,
>> 
>> Apologies for my silence thus far during this fascinating thread on 
>> the audible and the visible.  Due to running a festival on precisely 
>> this topic, I have been a little preoccupied and thus my text has 
>> remained invisible and my voice inaudible, on a thread I would have 
>> overwise liked to ahve contributed to.
>> 
>> Let me respond briefly to Sally Jane's question:
>> 
>>> Picking up on Beryl's and Kelly's reflection, I'd really 
>love to know 
>>> more about the sound component of SPINE about which there 
>seems to be 
>>> little information - the forma website mentions a work 
>"developed in 
>>> collaboration with sound artists", but I'd love to know more about 
>>> this dimension of the work which seemed crucial to the way 
>it functioned in Newcastle.
>>> with thanks for any insights to flesh out the silence and 
>best wishes
>> 
>> Yes, this is a very good point that raises some very 
>interesting questions
>> about the nature of audiovisual collaboration.   For those 
>of you who didn't
>> see the work, you can read about it online at the AV 
>Programme wesbite 
>> and at the forma website:
>> http://www.avfest.co.uk/06/thursday2.php
>> http://www.forma.org.uk/current_productions/spine.html
>> 
>> I am CC'ing this to Gina Czarnecki, the artist who made SPINE and to 
>> David Metcalfe from forma, who produced SPINE , who will be better 
>> able to introduce the collaboration than I can.
>> 
>> By way of a short answer, the sound for SPINE is by the 
>noted Austrian 
>> musician Christian Fennesz <http://www.fennesz.com/>.
>> Fennesz is a classically trained guitarist, but it is in the 
>world of 
>> electronic music that is has become most known.  He part of a 
>> mini-generation of musicians who deployed the laptop in the 
>> composition and performance of their work in the mid - late 
>1990s, and 
>> his music, along with that of General Magic and Farmers 
>Manual, among 
>> others, helped establish Viennese label, Mego, as one of the major 
>> touchstones within experimental electronic music .  His 
>debut album on 
>> that label, Hotel Paral.Lel (Mego, 1997) remains one of the most 
>> important releases of the period.  2001's Endless Summer is perhaps 
>> his best known work. Fennesz works often in collaboration with other 
>> musicians, especially with Mego label mate Peter Rehberg, the 
>> ubiquitous post-rock phenomena that is Jim O'Rourke, and New 
>> Zealander, Rosy Parlane, who like Fennesz has a shimmering, almost 
>> emotional aesthetic within his music.  In recent times 
>Fennesz has composed film music, soundtracks for dance 
>companies, along side his own releases.
>> 
>> Gina Czarnecki  will be able to speak more lucidly about the 
>nature of 
>> the collaborative relationship developed for SPINE, suffice 
>it to say 
>> the two artists have worked together before on several artworks, 
>> including Czarnecki's works Nascent and Infected.  You can 
>read about 
>> Nascent online at <http://www.forma.org.uk/archprod/nascent.html>.
>> 
>> At one point during the discussion about how SPINE would function as 
>> an outdoor work during the AV Festival, we considered (partly for 
>> logistical
>> reasons) how the piece would function without sound. I think 
>all of us 
>> are greatly relieved that we did not pursue this route, as 
>anyone who 
>> experienced the work at the Newcastle Civic centre, would agree that 
>> the sound is an integral component of the way the piece 
>unfolds, and the impact is has on the
>> audience is derived by the combined effect of the audial and 
>visual.    For
>> me, the sound helped create the visceral depth that this work 
>> possesses.  Gina commented that without Fennesz's sound the image 
>> plane become a mere 'surface'.
>> 
>> I am sure that Gina and David have more to say on this, than I, 
>> though, so I willleave it at that for now.
>> 
>> best wishes
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Honor Harger
>> Director
>> 
>> AV Festival 06
>> Newcastle, Sunderland, Middlesbrough, UK
>> 
>> Tel: +44 (0)191 2328289, ext 112
>> Email: [log in to unmask]
>> c/-Tyneside Cinema, 10 Pilgrim St, Newcastle Upon Tyne, NE1 6QG, UK 
>> http://www.avfest.co.uk/
>> 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ------
>>> ________________________________
>>> 
>>> From: Curating digital art - 
>www.newmedia.sunderland.ac.uk/crumb/ on 
>>> behalf of Beryl Graham
>>> Sent: Mon 20/03/2006 16:23
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: [NEW-MEDIA-CURATING] The Audible and the Visible
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dear List,
>>> 
>>> We seem to have hit a bit of a lull, but now that AV is over, and 
>>> node is still happening in London, it might be time to reflect on 
>>> applying these issues to examples of recent artwork, as Kelli very 
>>> usefully does below.  I think that "Spine" is a very useful 
>example, 
>>> because I think that like many artworks, you don't need to know the 
>>> invisible research, but it's more interesting if you do know the 
>>> background, which is where I suppose the ancient curatorial art of 
>>> writing the interpretative material comes in. Having the engagingly 
>>> mysterious images helps to draw people in to further 
>knowledge. I was 
>>> also interested in the sound element of this work (I haven't seen a 
>>> previous work by the same artist that uses sound so strongly). It 
>>> seemed that in that particular public location, the sound was very 
>>> important in changing both the space and the time dynamic: sound 
>>> seems to reach out to a wider space, and entice people for a closer 
>>> look; there also seemed to be a longer time in which to 
>engage people 
>>> (if you can hear it down the street before seeing it, it seems to 
>>> work on the unconscious, and on sheer curiousity more, and 
>because of 
>>> the more performative feel, people seem to stand around in 
>'spectator 
>>> at a concert' mode. What have others found about the role of sound?
>>> 
>>> In relation to the wider issues of invisibility, then there is an 
>>> event in London tonight which deals with "Sites and 
>Para-sites: Networking
>>> Art"   which might carry on the debate of the "Curating 
>Immateriality"
>>> seminar of last year. Would anyone that to feed back from 
>that event?
>>> 
>>> Yours
>>> 
>>> Beryl
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Sites and Para-sites: Networking Art
>>>> 
>>>> Date:    Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:28:02 -0000
>>>> From:    Kelli Dipple <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Subject: The Audible and the Visible
>>>> 
>>>> Hello all - I am pleased to join this month's very active 
>dialogue. 
>>>> It is interesting and pertinent that a discussion 
>launching off the 
>>>> theme of 'Audio-Visual' should go into such detail with regard to 
>>>> theories and examples of computing and programming... One 
>thing that 
>>>> strikes me, with regard to a range of contemporary, 
>>>> new-media/audio-visual - art, is the propensity that the work has, 
>>>> for both front-end and back-end aesthetics. Front-end often 
>>>> inferring something visible or tangible, along the lines of 
>>>> interface... back-end often inferring something behind the scenes 
>>>> which is more often than not - invisible. My engagement 
>with artists 
>>>> working in this domain, who are creating new-media and/or 
>>>> audio-visual work, is often inspired by a discussion regarding 
>>>> underlying concepts, rather than the materials or methods employed 
>>>> on there own. Personally, I do tend to be most interested in work 
>>>> that demonstrates a detailed relationship to concept, 
>which follows 
>>>> through in some way from the front-end to the back-end. I 
>don't need 
>>>> a detailed understanding of, or be able to write Java, to 
>appreciate 
>>>> a thorough and invigorated concept, but perhaps I need a certain 
>>>> type of appreciation for practices embedded in media and 
>>>> technological forms in order to understand how a programme (in 
>>>> computation terms) can indeed have an aesthetic and conceptual 
>>>> underpinning. When the function and aesthetic of a work is in 
>>>> harmony with a clearly defined concept, it tends to be 
>evident through the success of the work over all.
>>>> 
>>>> Further than the visible boundary of the work itself, its 
>interface 
>>>> or object-ness - these conceptual and aesthetic concerns can run 
>>>> right through to platform, delivery, experience, distribution and 
>>>> time-base, both within the work itself and between the 
>work and its 
>>>> associated audiences and architectures, encompassing social, 
>>>> political, technological and physical contexts.
>>>> 
>>>> I wanted to draw attention to a work currently being exhibited in 
>>>> the AV fest by Gina Czarnecki, titled 'Spine', it in part seems 
>>>> exemplary of a type audio-visual work, common today, employing 
>>>> collaborative and interdisciplinary methods that aim, to not only 
>>>> visualise what a spine might look like, but further seek to 
>>>> represent in fact, what a spine is
>>>> - and what it might become. The work has been developed by Gina in 
>>>> collaboration with biotechnologists, computer programmers, dancers 
>>>> and sound artists.
>>>> 
>>>> And below - another example of a hybrid audio-visual 
>practice, taken 
>>>> from the biography of Carsten Nicolia (also performing as 
>part of AV 
>>>> Fest this March).
>>>> Carsten Nicolai is an artist using various media, such as sound, 
>>>> image, sculpture and computer, as hybrid tools in order to 
>research 
>>>> the "codification of the world". Nicolai's work questions 
>>>> creativity, coincidence and artistic creative power. A lot of his 
>>>> works are directly linked with the natural sciences. The 
>physics of 
>>>> oscillation in particular are a frequent means of his work and are 
>>>> not limited by audibility and visibility, but trying to 
>make natural 
>>>> phenomena visible.
>>>> Scientists like the Physicist Ukichiro Nakaya, who researched snow 
>>>> crystals in his studies, were an inspiration to Carsten 
>Nicolai for 
>>>> his "snow noise" installation. The joint collaboration with 
>>>> scientists, search and research, will combine scientific 
>experiment 
>>>> with artistic sculpture. In "snow noise", the laboratory 
>becomes the 
>>>> exhibition space, the activity of the audience makes it a part of 
>>>> the sculpture itself.
>>>> 
>>>> I would be interested to hear responses from the group on 
>the notion 
>>>> of the visible and invisible or front-end and back-end 
>aesthetics -- 
>>>> and would certainly invite further comment from those who may have 
>>>> been in Newcastle for the AV festival, who could comment 
>further on 
>>>> the work of these two artists, in light of having had the 
>real life experience...
>>>> 
>>>> I will pick up further on the notion of interface, 
>distribution and 
>>>> time base - between artwork/s, audience/s and architecture/s in a 
>>>> later post.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards
>>>> 
>>>> Kelli Dipple
>> 
>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>> 
>> honor harger
>> 
>> present location: newcastle, .uk
>> email: [log in to unmask]
>> mob: (+44) 07765834272
>> 
>> - > w o r k
>> av festival, .uk: http://www.avfest.co.uk/
>> 
>> - > p l a y
>> r a d i o q u a l i a: http://www.radioqualia.net
>> 
>> -> l i s t e n
>> radio astronomy: http://www.radio-astronomy.net
>> 
>> 
>
>