When JAMA came out of ProQuest - they decided to attack the NHS through suppliers like Swets and I think Ovid plus direct through their own direct internet version... you may well have seen their promotional material in December / January time. They contacted their UK equivalent BMJ and asked what should they do to sell direct to the NHS. BMJ said - you have to be able to deliver via Athens as IP addresses won't work for the NHS. 
Swets told them that, and I'm sure any other third party supplier did as well. I talked to them at the Swets stand at Online last year as a token NHS person and during the conversation I mentioned Athens - which appeared to be a total surprise to them... despite being told that by all potential suppliers of their product previous to my meeting.

So I'm not surprised that US publishers have little clue on selling to our institution!

Have they heard of Shibboleth methinks....???

Andy

Andy Richardson
Electronic Services Manager
eKAT (electronic Knowledge Access Team)
NHS London
South Bank Technopark
90 London Road
London
SE1 6LN
0207 593 0117
[log in to unmask]
http://www.ekatandy.blogspot.com

>>> "Woodley Zena (RQ8) Mid Essex Hospital" <[log in to unmask]> 10/12/06 10:49 am >>>
To amuse y'all: I took a call yesterday, from a publishing company (clinical oncology, in case any of you are so lucky to also get this cheerful lass).  Would I care for a free online trial of this journal? Why yes I would, ma'am; but could their system cope with roaming IPs? Ah. Bit of a problem, that. You say it's the same in all the NHS? thank you for telling me that....

So it really does behove any US publisher to recognise that systems in the UK aren't the same as at home; and to accommodate accordingly.  Otherwise, I think they're taking me for someone of loglike intelligence.  

And until they show signs of intelligence - not simply a pure desire for my precious cash - I will take the print version.

cheers - from a sunny, Chelmsford; where it's warmer outside my office than in...
I'm just going outside....
Zena Woodley B.A.(Joint Hons), MCLIP
Library Resources Manager
The Warner Library
Broomfield Hospital
Chelmsford CM1 7ET
T: 01245-514310
e : [log in to unmask] 





-----Original Message-----
From: UK medical/ health care library community / information workers [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tatlow Jane (University Hospitals Of Leicester NHS Trust)
Sent: 11 October 2006 16:33
To: [log in to unmask] 
Subject: Re: [LIS-MEDICAL] MA HealthCare Ltd - British Journal of Midwifery


And even more annoying when that same "Tiered" price relates to IP access that we cant accept....

Jane Tatlow
University Hospitals of Leicester

---- Original message ----
>Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:15:51 +0100
>From: Merriott Sue <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: MA HealthCare Ltd - British Journal of Midwifery  
>To: [log in to unmask] 
>
>I absolutely agree with Rowena....I will only subscribe to electronic 
>only version as a result of pressure from user groups,  for the same 
>reasons, that once you stop subscribing you will (probably) lose access 
>to archives. Unfortunately, as I discovered with 'Pediatrics' recently, 
>it is sometimes not possible now to just subscribe to print only 
>version; one is quoted a much higher rate which compulsorily includes 
>electronic access.  Bit of a speedy change from a couple of years ago 
>when the electronic access was included for free!!  Unfortunately I'm 
>sure this will be a growing trend.
>
>Sue
>
>Sue Merriott
>Library Services Manager
>Worthing Postgraduate Centre
>Park Avenue
>Worthing  BN11 2HR
>01903 285025
>[log in to unmask] 
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: UK medical/ health care library community / information workers 
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Perry Rowena
>Sent: 11 October 2006 13:48
>To: [log in to unmask] 
>Subject: Re: MA HealthCare Ltd - British Journal of Midwifery
>
>
>Both products are part of MA Healthcare so its not a question of the 
>jnl pulling out of a service.
>
>This is, I think, an inherent problem with subscribing to services - in 
>that if the journal disappears from the service then you lose all 
>access including to those issues that you think you have paid for.  As 
>seen numerous times with proquest.
>
>We now have a hole in our holdings of DTB as when the DoH did not renew 
>their sub the archive was also lost - now this I cannot understand.
>
>So far all I have seen is evidence for not cancelling print subs in 
>favour of electronic ones and if this means I don't have the funds to 
>pay for electronic access then so be it, at least you only have to pay 
>for print once and its yours to keep (sticky fingered users not 
>withstanding).
>
>Rowena Perry
>Library Manager
>Health Informatics Shared Services
>
>Healthcare Library
>Prospect Park Hospital
>Honey End Lane
>Reading RG30 4EJ
>
>Tel: 0118 960 5020
>Fax: 0118 960 5014
>
>[log in to unmask] 
>
> 
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: UK medical/ health care library community / information workers 
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Andy Richardson
>Sent: 11 October 2006 13:22
>To: [log in to unmask] 
>Subject: Re: MA HealthCare Ltd - British Journal of Midwifery
>
>When we were forced down the line of having to locally enquire about 
>buying Internurse because MA Healthcare tanked up there renewal prices 
>out of all proportion for National Core Content - one of the things I 
>wanted was individual pricing for journals within InterNurse. MA 
>Healthcare refused to offer anything other than the whole collection - 
>so at least we now could have the chance to buy BJM separately. Not 
>that we have any money - just in case NHS London staff start asking 
>me!!! Perhaps losing BJM may change MA Healthcare's all or nothing 
>policy!!!
>
>Yes they have sort of got us over a barrel - but collective refusal to 
>subscribe is an alternative. Probably not in our professional make up 
>though, collectively organising to refuse to supply something... - so 
>they have got us over a barrel...
>
>Quick look at our London regional catalogue gives me 27 live BJM 
>subscriptions - don't know the the institutional print sub as their 
>website asks you to register for a quote but those of you who do, times 
>it by 27 - and if libraries don't subscribe they lose that money... I'm 
>a bit radical - which is fortunate for the rest of my professional 
>colleagues and midwives in London!!! - plus I'm not at the coal face 
>telling them why they can't see BJM!
>
>What actually does surprise me is the fact that publishers are not 
>aware of the massive reductions in library funding across all sectors. 
>I hope everyone with a subscription emails the editor of BJM and makes 
>them totally aware of the fact that print funding is disappearing and 
>as for buying it electronically....
>
>I often hear that the Royal Colleges insist on specific journals being 
>made available at Trusts for students and staff - perhaps direct 
>complaint about specified journals to them might be a way forward - the 
>more people moaning direct to the publisher can only help
>
>If anyone at BJM is lurking on this list and would like to give valid 
>reasons why they've pulled out of Internurse and why they've priced 
>their product at such a price I'm sure a venue can be arranged! One of 
>the problems is that publishers never ever talk direct to libraries - 
>as they tend to deal with subscription agents. Come out into the real 
>world guys and justify yourselves!
>
>Grumpy of London
>
>
>
>Andy Richardson
>Electronic Services Manager
>eKAT (electronic Knowledge Access Team)
>NHS London
>South Bank Technopark
>90 London Road
>London
>SE1 6LN
>0207 593 0117
>[log in to unmask] 
>http://www.ekatandy.blogspot.com 
>
>>>> Linda Woolgrove <[log in to unmask]> 10/11/06 10:00 am >>>
>>I thought that people on LIS-MED might be interested to see an email 
>>sent
>>out by my colleague to LIS-E-JOURNALS and join in the debate!
>
>Linda
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: An informal open list set up by the UK Serials Group 
>>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lesley Crawshaw
>>Sent: 10 October 2006 16:44
>>To: [log in to unmask] 
>>Subject: MA HealthCare Ltd - British Journal of Midwifery will no longer be
>>part of internurse.com but is on intermid.co.uk at extra cost!
>>
>>Hi,
>>
>>We have a current subscription to internurse.com where we've been able 
>>to access the British Journal of Midwifery alongside other key nursing 
>>journals.
>>
>>We have just received a letter and a beautifully illustrated guide 
>>informing us that the British Journal of Midwifery is now being hosted 
>>on a new site, intermid.co.uk, which is already up and running, and 
>>guess what, the British Journal of Midwifery will no longer be 
>>available on internurse.com from 2007.
>>
>>Whilst there is an introductory offer until the 31st January 2007 
>>which enables subscribers to subscribe to both resources at a special 
>>price of £5242.50 for 2007, once that offer has expired subscribers 
>>will have to find an extra £1700 + VAT in order that their midwives 
>>can access the British Journal of Midwifery on the new site.
>>
>>We are extremely concerned here at the University of Hertfordshire 
>>that this journal is going to be removed from internurse.com at the 
>>end of this year, and that in order to continue to access the 
>>electronic version of the British Journal of Midwifery we are going to 
>>have to find additional funds to support it.
>>
>>We are also concerned that other journals could be peeled off the 
>>internurse.com service onto other sites in the future that will 
>>require additional funding be found.
>>
>>There are several other MA Healthcare Ltd journals, which are now 
>>available as online only, but which aren't available in either 
>>internurse.com or intermid.co.uk, but only through separate sites. In 
>>each of theses cases the cost of the journal online has risen 
>>considerably over what the journal cost in paper e.g. Hospital 
>>Medicine now costs us over £1500 per year for online access whereas 
>>the print used to cost about £300 e.g. International Journal of 
>>Therapy and Rehabilitation currently costs us £300 in print, but the 
>>publisher wants £1500 for online access. Whilst we could just about 
>>justify moving Hospital Medicine to online only, we can't justify 
>>moving the more specialised International Journal of Therapy and 
>>Rehabilitation to online only.
>>
>>Do others out there have concerns about the splitting off of journals 
>>from existing sites at an extra cost and rampant inflation in the 
>>price of journals that move to online only?
>>
>>As one of my colleagues has just said "they've got us over a barrel" 
>>with this title.
>>
>>Maybe we should just go back to print!
>>
>>Do others share our concern at this?
>>
>>Cheers
>>Lesley
>>
>>
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>Lesley Crawshaw, Faculty Information Consultant,
>>Learning and Information Services
>>University of Hertfordshire, Hatfield, AL10 9AB 
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>email: [log in to unmask] 
>>phone: 01707 284662 fax: 01707 284666
>>list owner: [log in to unmask] 
>>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>.......................................................................
>.......
>
>Linda Woolgrove
>Faculty Information Consultant Health & Human Sciences Learning & 
>Information Services University of Hertfordshire
>College Lane
>Hatfield
>Hertfordshire
>AL10  9AB
>
>Tel:   01707 285027
>Email: [log in to unmask] 
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