Dear All
Before becoming an archivist I worked ifor an auctioneers and can see both sides of the story.
Firstly, to answer a few points:
-if you bid yes you are driving up the price, making sales more profitable and therefore more likely. However, we have to be practical, if you don't bid for records then they will be lost to who knows where. So not to bid could be counter productive in the long run. This could be difficult budget wise however.
-proper auction houses are a totally different ball game from eBay (valuers for Antiques Roadshow are from proper auction houses, they have a proven track record and are rigorously checked) the reason I say this is because they are heavily regulated for example, if a document is for sale/sold who’s ownership is in dispute then steps can be taken to return the document.
- I'm not sure valuations do feed the market, documents have been bought and sold for years and there is nothing new about it (eBay however, does add another dimension because of its speed/lack of regulation and the fact that you could be buying a fake but would not discover this until purchased), a person who has papers of someone important etc has always had the option of selling the records and the value of say a letter from a prime minister has long been recognised, there are many historical examples of people buying personal papers/libraries etc.
Surely the real issues for the profession are that TNA guidance is wanting and that regulations that are meant to protect records at the point of sale are likewise so as a profession we definitely should not be quiet but should be pushing for the sort of protection and support works of art get! Does anyone else remember the clamour by the National Gallery etc to keep Raphael’s Madonna of the Pinks here......not only were they hugely successful over somethng that wasn't even piece of our nations heritage, oh and (no names mentioned) some of the experts I worked with said they doubted it was Raphael at all!! So we need to consider why this is the case and act. (see http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/cgi-bin/WebObjects.dll/CollectionPublisher.woa/wa/work?workNumber=ng6596 about the saving of the Madonna of the Pinks, a proviso to the grant was that the painting tour and so be bought 'for the nation'.)
In response to the first message, if you want guidance on how auctions/valuations for sale or insurance work then feel free to ask for my opinion.
Karyn Stuckey
Co-operative College
> From:: Taylor Martin <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Antiques Roadshow and valuations of documents
> Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:02:52 +0100
> Dear All
>
> I see that Karen has asked colleagues to reply off list - but the
> valuations
> of documents on programmes such as the Antiques Roadshow is an issue which
> impacts on all of us.
>
> Increasingly records are seen, not as part of our common heritage, but as
> commodities with a monetary value which can be realised via e-bay.
>
> On two separate occasions in the last year, records of a Hull children's
> hospital (other records of which were deposited with us as public records)
> have been sold on e-bay. If we had wanted these items, we would have had to
> bid for them - and indeed did so, but were unsuccessful. A county record
> office of my acquaintance sought advice from TNA when a collection of
> manorial court rolls appeared for sale on e-bay. TNA's advice was
> apparently
> to bid for them.
>
> Valuations by Clive Farahar (the Roadshows antiquarian books expert) and
> his
> colleagues surely feed into the increasingly active on-line market in
> documents.
>
> Is this a good thing? Should we as a profession co-operate with Farahar and
> his ilk? By bidding for the volumes on e-bay was I ramping up prices in a
> market which, unchecked, will damage our mission to preserve our written
> heritage? Or is it safer not to rock any boats and remain invisible as a
> profession?
>
> I'm sorry in a way that this has come up on a Friday afternoon -
> discussions
> of professional issues shouldn't be regarded as a Friday afternoon
> irrelevance!
>
> Martin Taylor
> City Archivist
> Hull City Archives
> 79 Lowgate
> Hull
> HU1 1HN
> United Kingdom
> T: 01482 613559
> F: 01482 613051
> E: [log in to unmask]
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: COOKE, Karen [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 18 August 2006 14:00
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Antiques Roadshow and valuations of documents
>
>
> Dear all
>
> We at Gloucestershire Archives would be very grateful if anyone with
> experience of dealing with TV programmes such as Antiques Roadshow (or
> similar) over valuations of documents, or anyone with policies for dealing
> with such things, could contact us as a matter of urgency. (replies
> off-list
> please, to Paul Evans, Head of Access, on
> [log in to unmask],
> rather than to me.)
>
> With many thanks
>
> Karen Cooke
>
>
> *******************************************
> Karen Cooke
> Archivist
> Gloucestershire Archives
> Clarence Row
> Alvin Street
> Gloucester GL1 3DW
>
> 01452 425081
> [log in to unmask]
>
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