Caroline et al
good question -
in hermeticism/egyptian magic etc no one has really been following the old
magic/religion distinction for a while really - it just didn't seem to fit
the material -
i heard that Ronald Hutton has proposed a variation on this - which in
effect says that, apart from Greco-Egyptian tradition,* there has been a
radical split between magic & religion that has only just been 'repaired' -
although many would disagree with even that minimal thesis. Although it has
to be said that the terms 'magic' and 'religion' are latin (well magic is a
persian loan word - used by the romans with perjorative sense) - so at least
since roman times there was some sort of taboo against the use of the _word_
magic - and this was adopted by the early christians with devastating
effect. Some, notable the cunning man Jack Daw, would argue that whatever
the christians may say about magic - they do actually practice it. (thats
even allowing that the 'theology' of the abrahamic tradition is on a par
with that of say Hinduism - which many would dispute)
So what is it?
Essential reading for this has to be R Ritner's prize winning book 'the
mechanics of ancient egyptian magical practice'
where he discusses this issue and avoids any essentialist definitions 'eg:
arts and science of causing change etc, etc' and instead focuses on magical
'activities' - so magic is a kind of syndrome - which is defined by things
like - use of red ochre, encircling, power of words etc etc. This approach
is one that is familiar and has worked well in the study of tantrism which
seems to overlap with hinduism in many respects but can be seen to have
approximately eight defining characteristics - initiation, mantra, yantra
etc.
Love and do what you will
mogg
ps: some of these issues are discussed from a practitioners perpective
in my book 'The Bull of Ombos: seth and egyptian magick'
* its a moot point whether it is legitimate to exclude such a large
and significant culture from the argument.
: ) .....................................: )
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-----Original Message-----
From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Caroline Tully
Sent: 10 December 2005 08:56
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: terminology
Just wondering,
This list is called the "Society for the Academic Study of Magic" and in the
original notification that I saw about the list's revival it said "a
valuable and exciting resource for academics and others interested in all
forms of magical practice from any period of history, any geographic area
and any disciplinary background." So, I'm wondering what is meant by the
word "magic"? I know, although I've been digressing into talking about
Neo-Paganism, which I don't really want to do (I'm more interested in
ancient magic), what I really mean, or what I intend mean when I use the
word "magic", is magic as in "getting things done via supernatural methods"
rather than religion per se. (I know there are arguments for not separating
magic and religion, but I do think there is a difference, even if it is just
of intent. I suppose some religions, like Neo-Paganism are actually
"magic(k)al religions"). I'll freely admit that I'm not quite up on the
current interpretations of the word "magic" in academia (although I hope to
be better versed in it by next semester). Marvin Meyer and Paul Mirecki in
"Ancient Magic and Ritual Power" (1995) define magic as 'ritual power',
empowerment through ritual methods. I know they are talking here about
Ancient Magic. Do we mean different things when we use the word "magic" to
describe practices from different periods of time and different cultures? Or
not. Is this one of those words like say, "Witch" is today where there is
one word for a plethora of differnet types of practitioners?
~Caroline.
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