Go David, Go David!
(I don't mean go away, I mean, in the modern sense, keep going!)
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Smail" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] On the subject of conferences...
> Dear All
>
> Finally an issue that impels me to come out of lurking!
>
> Life is hard enough without making 'problematization' - often no doubt
> necessary and unavoidable - a positive virtue. I have no particular
> feelings
> about community clinical psychologists as opposed to 'pure' critical
> community psychologists, except to say that this kind of branding exercise
> seems to me more divisive than constructive. (If it's not a branding
> exercise what is it? A moral crusade? A sound, intellectually based,
> objectively demonstrable description? An identification of factions? A
> manifesto?.
>
> Orthodox psychology has, it's true, virtually sold out and betrayed
> everything it ever stood for, and clinical psychology on the whole has
> done
> the same. But I'm not sure that I, a clinical psychologist, achieve
> anything by calling myself something else or pretending that I'm not a
> clinical psychologist, or begging to be admitted to some other notional
> grouping instead. I suppose that, a bit like, say, Tony Benn and the
> Labour
> Party, I refuse to be forced out of the institution I've belonged to all
> my
> life just because it's been hijacked by entrepreneurs and half-witted
> managers. Rather than strengthen the divide between clinical and community
> psychology, I would want to weaken it, and that means, in part and among
> other things, hammering away at clinical trainees to start being critical
> of
> the crap they're being taught. I would also expect that critical
> community
> psychologists are not incapable of talking and teaching crap, and I would
> reserve the right to say so without feeling a need to site myself in any
> particular camp. As far as I'm concerned clinical psychology is about
> trying to understand how 'psychological' distress comes about and, where
> possible, conceive of things that might be done about it (not necessarily
> by
> psychologists). That in my view leads naturally into trying to understand
> social structures (and with them, of course, communities)and how they
> work.
> That seems honourable enough to me, and to anyone who told me that my
> perspective was 'deeply flawed' simply because I am (inescapably) a
> clinical
> psychologist, my initial impulse (which, of course, I would control) would
> be to tell them to fuck off!
>
> David
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of amitchel
> Sent: 29 November 2005 21:59
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] On the subject of conferences...
>
>>Dear all,
>
> While I do agree with what David says here about clinical psychology, I
> also
> need to say that my suggestion that we think about timing the next
> conference to fit with potential trainees was not meant to be about
> appropriating it in any way (though perhaps it comes across like that)
> -simply part of an effort to make it accessible - and there will be plenty
> of other things to take into account too naturally.=
>
> Is there an implication here though that if a clinical psychologist is
> part
> of the group offering to do all the hard work organising the conference
> that
> it will default to clinical psychology values and assumptions? - If
> clinical
> psychology is dominating the agenda too much what should we do - maybe we
> are speaking out too much and need to keep quieter? As someone who is
> currently being punished rather hard within my institution for not
> colluding
> with the prevailing clinical ethos, and for acting on what I feel to be
> community psychology values and assumptions, I would feel sad if our
> community psychology network turned into yet another them and us sort of
> place which for me it so much hasn't felt so far. I've been so grateful
> for
> what has felt pretty much to be a safe space - it is really important for
> me
> that we can do disagreement here but in a way that is kind and not scary
> to
> speak out in. And David, I very much like and respect you - but you can
> be
> a bit scary in the way you put things! But I guess I can take a fair bit
> of
> scariness from colleagues and friends who I feel are basically with me...
>
> Annie
>
> PS re critisising clinical psychology - taking a look at the awful
> uncritical Layard stuff and orchestrating a community psychology
> rejoinder/
> alternative, to try and challenge the clinical psychology/CBT takeover
> would
> be good? Does anyone have any thoughts about how we might do that?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==== Original Message From The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> <[log in to unmask]> =====
>>Dear All,
>>
>>
>>
>>In case we are in danger of too soon closing down discussion in an
> insufficiently problematised and affirmatory consensus, here are some
> provocations:
>>
>>
>>
>>Where?
>>
>>Like everyone on the list, I am grateful for those in Yarmouth for
>>offering
> to host the next conference. However keys point about the site of the
> conference are, in my view, accessibility and cost. When we organized the
> UK CP conference in Stirling attendance was very poor and the travel time
> and c
>>ost implications seemed one discouraging factor. Would the position and
> transport links of Yarmouth be an issue? I don't think so but don't know.
> Another key issue relates to whether the choice of site determines whether
> the conference will default to clinical psychological assumptions and
> values
> (s
>>ee below)
>>
>>
>>
>>When?
>>
>>The Stirling semester usually starts about 10th September each year and
> attendance around that time would be difficult for group members here.
> Also
> when I was organising the Stirling meeting, feedback to me was that
> holding
> the conference over a Friday evening / Saturday would exclude Jewish
> colleag
>>ues
>>
>>
>>
>>Who for?
>>
>>I suggest it is a mistake to identify community psychology with a
> socially-liberalized version of clinical psychology. As a critical
> community
>
> psychologist I regard clinical psychology as fundamentally problematic
> with
> its almost universal tendency to individualize, pathologise and collude
> ideologic
>>ally with oppressive status quos. I accept that there is currently an
> encouraging development of critical clinical psychology and strongly
> recommend
> any clinical psychologist to read the work of David Smail, Craig Newnes
> and
> others (Craig's new book is especially interesting in my view). However,
> wh
>>ilst it is vital for clinical psychology to get its house in order,
> clinical
> psychologists seem to me to have lots of conference and meeting
> opportunities
> to critically debate the problematic nature of clinical psychology. I
> suggest
> it would be a wasted opportunity to devote the only major opportuni
>>ty in the UK to get together to debate community psychology by spending it
> talking about clinical psychology year after year. Even more of a waste of
> scarce time to spending the time introducing clinical psychology trainees
> to
>
> community psychology . . rather than lobbying to ensure trainees have opp
>>ortunities to engage with community and critical psychology critiques of
> clinical psychology in the training courses!
>>
>>
>>
>>What?
>>
>>For me, Saima, your message raised an important issue but then muddied it.
> To
> me racism is an appalling form of oppression and psychology, including
> clinical and community psychology, are problematically ethnocentric.
> Tackling
> racism and ethnocentrism should definitely be a priority for community ps
>>ychology but I doubt that that these can be best tackled via the lens of
> clinical psychology. Community psychologists in New Zealand and Australia
> and
> critical social-community psychologists in South Africa and South America
> have
> made important strides in exposing and tackling 'white privilege' and
>>racist oppression and here in the UK original work thinking about 'White
> terror' is being done by critical social representations psychologists
> e.g.
> at
> the LSE. I fear, and I think this was part of Craig's point, that clinical
> psychological is a deeply flawed perspective for getting to grips with so
>>cially manufactured and maintained oppression?
>>
>>
>>How?
>>The process issue is vital . . . surely how we conduct our community
> psychology conferences should be consistent with our community psychology
> values and assumptions . . . not just like any other conference with
> community
> psycholgy content dropped in to the 'slots'?
>>
>>. . . .
>>
>>David
>>
>>________________________________
>>
>>From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List on behalf of Diamond Bob
>>Sent: Tue 29/11/2005 18:11
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] On the subject of conferences...
>>
>>
>>
>>Hi Wendy
>>I think your suggestions for the conference are really helpful and will
>>help us to engage with one another on a number of topics. I don't really
>>mind when it is other than August.
>>Bob Diamond
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
>>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Franks, Wendy -
>>Clinical Psychologist
>>Sent: 28 November 2005 16:50
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] On the subject of conferences...
>>
>>Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. I haven't heard any
>>objections,
>>either via the list or privately, about us organising the next
>>conference
>>over here in Yarmouth. I've been encouraged by the general level of
>>enthusiasm about the prospect, and so unless there are any strong
>>objections, I think we should go ahead and start planning!
>>
>>I have started to put together some loose ideas and am looking at themes
>>and
>>suggestions that have already been raised here through email. So far
>>I've
>>got an A4 document with possible themes & possible functions for the
>>next
>>conference, and hope to add to this over the next month or two as issues
>>arise here on the list. In keeping with my background with qualitative
>>research methods, I seem to be leaning toward drawing connections
>>between
>>ideas and looking for ways of pulling them together into a bigger
>>picture.
>>I'd like to come back to the list about a theme once we've been able to
>>set
>>up a group to organise the conference and had a meeting or two. I hope
>>that
>>we'll be able to come up with an overarching theme that can incorporate
>>several of the suggestions that we've had so far.
>>
>>I'd also like to use the ideas that have been offered (and ideas yet to
>>be
>>offered!) to inform the structure of the conference. I think many of the
>>potential functions that David outlined are compatible and could
>>overlap. I
>>think one of the things that happened at the Newcastle conference was
>>that
>>people came with different agendas, and that many of these could be
>>accommodated within a conference programme that was pretty broad and
>>offered
>>plenty of choice. However there are some functions that seem less
>>compatible, and so the conference could be constructed to enable choice.
>>
>>
>>Three main structures come to mind at this point:
>>* We could have a selection of sessions peppered across a (yet to
>>be
>>specified) number of days.
>>* We could also have different days for different functions, that
>>people could choose to attend if they want - so one idea could be to
>>have
>>the first day for more general and introductory stuff - the basics of
>>community/critical psychology, how it fits with other disciplines,
>>examples
>>of community psychology in practice, etc. Then the second day we could
>>have
>>for the 'sustained critical debate' bit without having to explain the
>>assumptions and basics. We could have a third day, as was suggested at
>>Newcastle, for action.
>>* We could have a number of 'streams' going through the conference
>>-
>>with a focus on different functions.
>>
>>I'm very aware that each of these structures has potential problems as
>>well
>>as strengths, and that there are other possibilities that haven't
>>crossed my
>>mind. Still, I think there's plenty of time for that.
>>
>>Probably the most pressing issue for now is to think about dates. If
>>we're
>>going to have a conference, we'll need to book a venue.
>>
>>I am aware that we have traditionally (!) had the conference in October,
>>and
>>this coincides nicely with Black History Month - around which there have
>>been events organised in Great Yarmouth over the last couple of years,
>>and
>>hopefully will be again next year. It is also possible to have it
>>earlier,
>>maybe in September when the weather is (a bit!) more predictable, and
>>people
>>may be more able to enjoy the proximity to the sea! I have also had some
>>suggestions to move it further forward to August, but am aware that this
>>is
>>both incompatable with family committments for people who need to be
>>around
>>at home for school holidays, and also is in the middle of the Gt
>>Yarmouth
>>holiday season, when there is greater demand on holiday accommodation.
>>
>>I'd really like to get moving on the venue as soon as possible, so are
>>there
>>any other issues that need to be considered? What do people think about
>>the
>>various options?
>>
>>Wendy
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Franks, Wendy - Clinical Psychologist
>>> Sent: 23 November 2005 17:06
>>> To: UK Community Psychology Discussion List (E-mail)
>>> Subject: On the subject of conferences...
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I thought I'd let the dust settle from all the activity around the
>>> response to the BPS following the last conference, before starting up
>>> another (hopefully) big topic!
>>>
>>> I wondered if we could use some space and time to reflect on the last
>>> conference and to think about plans for the next one.
>>>
>>> Gillian Bowden and I offered at the end of the Newcastle conference
>>that
>>> we would be prepared to host the conference next year in Great
>>Yarmouth.
>>> After recovering from the shock, and on further reflection, I have
>>been
>>> feeling quite excited about the prospect...
>>>
>>> ...excited, and a more than just a little nervous about matching the
>>> standard of UK CP Network conferences that I've attended over the last
>>few
>>> years!
>>>
>>> Each of the conferences had a different, local flavour, and I think
>>that
>>> this has been a wonderful part of the experience. So hopefully being
>>> different is no bad thing, and there is enough that has been similar
>>to
>>> provide a framework on which to build.
>>>
>>> I am getting in touch with the list at this point to confirm that
>>people
>>> would like us to organise the next conference, and that there is an
>>> interest in coming all the way over Great Yarmouth next year. (we love
>>to
>>> be beside the seaside here, and hope you will too)
>>>
>>> If so, I would like to invite people from the list to talk about
>>whatever
>>> ways you'd like to be involved in planning the next conference.
>>Clearly
>>> there are practicalities regarding planning over distances, and we are
>>> prepared to do the leg-work involved in getting things organised. I'd
>>like
>>> to find out how much involvement people would like to have, how much
>>you'd
>>> like to know about our thoughts and ideas and developing plans, and to
>>> what extent it seems possible to organise an event such as this by
>>> consensus!
>>>
>>> We have a number of people locally who are very excited by the
>>prospect of
>>> putting on the conference here in 2006 (including me!), and I hope
>>that we
>>> can cover most of the practical elements of organising the conference.
>>> We've had a few discussions already about how we'd like it to develop,
>>and
>>> how we'd like to draw on our own local flavour to make it interesting
>>and
>>> productive. In general, I think it would be great if we could involve
>>the
>>> list members to be involved in shaping the conference, from deciding
>>on a
>>> theme, to discussing the practicalities in terms of how many days,
>>what
>>> days, what activities, when, etc. I also wondered if people wanted to
>>be
>>> involved in activities such as reviewing abstracts, or at least to
>>take
>>> some advice about the process from previous conference organisers.
>>>
>>> So, hopefully this isn't too soon after the last conference to start
>>> preparing...
>>>
>>> Wendy
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Wendy Franks
>>> Clinical Psychologist
>>> Primary Care & Psychological Services
>>> Norfolk & Waveney Mental Health Partnership NHS Trust
>>> Northgate Resource Centre
>>> Northgate Hospital
>>> Great Yarmouth
>>> NR30 1BU
>>>
>>> Tel: (01493) 337715
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> The contents of this email are not necessarily the policy or, opinion
>>or
>>> representative of any policy or opinion of Norfolk and Waveney Mental
>>> Health Partnership NHS Trust or any person employed by it. This
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>>>
>>> Please note that all email traffic is monitored by the Trust in
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>>> with NHS regulations.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>___________________________________
>>
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>>UK.
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>>COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in the UK.
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>>
>>
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>>___________________________________
>>
>>COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in the UK.
>>To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website:
>>http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/COMMUNITYPSYCHUK.HTML
>>For any problems or queries, contact the list moderator at
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>
> Annie Mitchell
> Clinical Director and Acting Programme Director,
> Doctorate in Clinical and Community Psychology,
> University of Exeter
>
> 01392264621
>
> ___________________________________
>
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> ___________________________________
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