Many thanks Jan! I was half expecting to be shot at for asking the question. We're in the process of research and forming a view of our institutional needs, but as you so correctly identify, we can do nothing about this until I'm allocated the budget and staffing resources to follow this through. And this I cannot do without some ballpark figures which, as is apparent, suppliers themselves will not provide at this early stage.

Thanks again for your help,
Claire

-----Original Message-----
From: The UK Records Management mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jan Hargreaves
Sent: 08 September 2005 11:41
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: EDRMS prices

That's all very well, Paul, but when you work for a public body, where your funding streams are dictated by the governing body's Finance Department, sometimes you need to give them a rough idea of how much money they're likely to need to set aside for a specific project, or by how much your funding stream for that year might need to be increased.

Not all public sector organisations are in the position where they can wait and see how much the ideal package for their RM needs is going to cost before allocating the money. Sometimes you get your costings in for your ideal package, only to be told that the organisation can't commit the funds that year.

A year ago, we obtained costings for the system that would have met our needs, taking into account all the points you raise about investing to achieve long-term improvements and not seeking a "quick fix" system that would require subsequent modifications. By the time the costings came in, our funding stream for that year could not support such an investment. I had obtained ball-park figures from other organisations prior to approaching companies, which enabled our Finance Department at the start of the financial year to say that I could go ahead with obtaining specific costings (which ended up being in the same area as the general figures I had obtained).

That's why we ask for an idea of how much something is likely to cost. Perhaps suppliers of systems need to pay more attention to the very real limitations public bodies have in terms of spending, and be a bit more understanding when we ask these obviously tiresome questions.

I'll be sending details of the costings we received to Claire, since it probably will be of use to her.

Jan Hargreaves
Senior Archivist
Museum of Science & Industry in Manchester


-----Original Message-----
From: The UK Records Management mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Paul Headey
Sent: 08 September 2005 11:25
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: EDRMS prices


From an EDRMS suppliers' perspective we obviously get asked this question all the time and usually far too early in the procurement cycle for it to have any relevance to the reality of the total cost of a successful EDRMS project. When we are asked this too early it immediately rings alarm bells as to what the driver and justification behind the investment will be based on. i.e. we need a system to get a tick in the box to show we have made some sort of effort to enhance our information management position, therefore will choose "best value" or the "the cheapest proposal", where as the emphasis we look for as a supplier to respond  to an RFP is whether we feel the prospective organisation is really interested in providing a massive difference to their organisations information life cycle management and thus make a better return on their capital investment by making better use of their information, reducing storage overheads, providing immediate an secure access to information, driving cost out of our business processes etc. 

I emphsasise successful implementation because as a supplier we come across numerous RFP's many which we respond with a "no bid" response because of the obvious lack of commitment in the change management, an overwhelming under estimation of the preparation required to design departmental file plans, design disposition schedules and retention policies and without this understanding of the requirements it's quite impossible to provide any where an accurate proposal for the project. Setting up the RM properties is a fairly minimal task when you do it once with minor changes. However re-configuring RM properties time and time again due to lack of preparation and the underestimation of the preparation effort can render the whole project a total failure through going over budget as the specification keeps changing. non adoption from users if they haven't a clear understanding of what the system is supposed to be doing for them, and if they haven't been provided with the appropriate amount design inclusion and user training, and there are numerous examples I could cite. Examples that we haven't responded to I might add!

The danger is that cost becomes the paramount consideration, and not the return on the capital invested. If the £250,000 proposal is chosen over the £350,00 proposal you should provide the suppliers the opportunity to justify what they are supplying for their premium. The £100,000 could be the difference between the system being delivered successfully or not. 

If anyone actually responds by supplying you with the tender costs, beware that you don't set a precedent on the budget which minimises your scope to pay for an appropriate amount of fileplan design by your own organisation, user training and up front fileplan consultancy which tend to be areas where investment is minimised. 

The software cost should be least of your considerations without having made some progress into the preparation of the business requirements/specification to provide some chance of the suppliers providing you with a reasonably accurate project estimation. There is plenty of shelfware out there gathering dust through non adoption due to lack of proper planning.

Good luck, hope you take on board the point in making the effort on defining your own business requirements rather than plagiarizing other organisations RFP's and supplier responses. 

Paul Headey

Deltascheme Ltd.

-----Original Message-----
From: The UK Records Management mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Moore, Claire
Sent: 07 September 2005 17:17
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: EDRMS prices

Would anyone be kind enough to share, off-list, tender prices/ quotes that you've received for EDRMS? I'm trying to get budget allocated for a system here at Lancaster and therefore need an understanding of the range in which tenders are likely to fall. We're some way off procurement, so I'm reluctant to call in potential suppliers just yet.
I'm aware this is something of a 'how long is a piece of string'
question: if you have figures relating to systems for university administration only, or incorporating academic and other support departments, all of these would be useful - please could you briefly outline the applicable circumstances? If you'd like to provide any information in confidence, I can ensure both the source of the data and the supplier name is anonymised in my use of the figures.

Many thanks in anticipation
Claire

Claire Moore
Records Manager
Lancaster University
Bailrigg
Lancaster LA1 4YW

Email: [log in to unmask]



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