medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Dear Steve,
In this instance, I think the difficulty is more likely to lie in the
multiplicity of versions and the contexts in which these occur. Karl
Brunner's response quoted below is instructive here. Note esp. the two
quotations from Thomas of Chobham: these preserve Augustine's double
negative and are thus closer to the Augustinian passage than is
your "qui ardet, incendit" (which latter is logically a somewhat
different proposition). But their application to a "frigidum pectus"
is already far removed from Augustine on evil intent. Augustine's
illustration from natural science has become proverbial and,
consequently, subject to variation. You might have a look at some
moral florilegia to see if and how the proverb appears there.
Best again,
John Dillon
On Wednesday, June 1, 2005, at 10:57 am, Steve McMichael wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
> culture
> Dear John and others,
>
> Thanks for the help with this phrase "qui ardet, incendit." The
> author I
> work on, Alonso de Espina (d. 1464), has Bernard as the author. It
> may very
> well be based on "the form of words from which the latter was
> condensed," as
> you suggest. As in the case of other quotes of his, they never
> quite match
> the original text that he is quoting from. Is this because there
> are other
> version of texts or corrupt manuscripts floating around in various
> parts of
> Europe?
>
> Thanks again for your help!
>
> Steve
>
> Steven J. McMichael, OFM Conv.
> Theology Department
> University of Saint Thomas
> St. Paul, MN USA
>
> _____
>
> From: John Dillon [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Mon 5/30/2005 3:01 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [M-R] "qui ardet incendit"
>
>
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
> culture
>
> Dear Steve,
>
> Despite Karl Brunner's search results reported below, you might
> still
> wish to have a look at the Dekkers/Fraipont ed. of Augustine,
> _Enarrationes in Psalmos_ (CCSL, 38-40) at the passage already
> cited by
> Elena Lemeneva: 34.1.11. In the _Patrologia Latina_ text of this
> (vol.
> 36, cols. 329-30), one reads:
>
> Nemo malus non sibi prius nocet. Sic enim esse putate malitiam,
> quomodo
> {col. 330} ignem. Incendere vis aliquid: illud quod admoves, prius
> ardet, nisi ardeat, non incendit.
>
> This would appear to contain all the elements of the apophthegm in
> question except two: brevity and restriction to human beings.
> Though
> you say you are seeking the first appearance of what you call
> "this
> phrase" (which I take to mean the _sententia_ "qui ardet,
> incendit"),
> you might also be interested in what seems likely to be the form
> of
> words from which the latter was condensed.
>
> Best,
> John Dillon
>
> On Monday, May 30, 2005, at 1:24 pm, Karl Brunner wrote:
>
>
> > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion
> and
> > culture
> > Sorry, no Augustine, because he is complete in CLCLT. The
> nearest
> > reference I found there are:
> > Excerpta CLCLT-5 - Library of Latin Texts, Turnhout, Brepols
> > Publishers, 2002 - Inquisitio in uol. I, II et III
> > SENTENTIAE - INQUISITIO IN UOL. 1 >>>
> > 10 >>> Zeno Ueronensis - TractatusCl. 0208, lib. : 1, tractatus
> :
> > 22,linea : 9 O admirabile incendium! o uere spectaculum deo
> dignum!
> > quiaudiunt, timent; qui incenderant, ardent; qui incensi sunt,
> > sanctificati et incolumes de camino procedunt per dominum
> nostrum
> > iesumchristum.
> > SENTENTIAE - INQUISITIO IN UOL. 2 >>>
> > 3 >>> Isidorus Hispalensis - Etymologiarum siue Originum libri
> XXCl.
> > 1186, lib. : 7, cap. : 5, par. : 24 Seraphin quoque similiter
> > multitudoest angelorum, qui ex Hebraeo in Latinum ardentes uel
> > incendentesinterpretantur.
> > SENTENTIAE - INQUISITIO IN UOL. 3 >>>
> > 27 >>> Thomas de Chobham - Sermonessermo : 14, linea : 253 []
> > Frigidus autem homo alium calefacere non potest, quia qui non
> ardet
> > nonincendit.
> > 28 >>> Thomas de Chobham - Summa de conmendatione et
> extirpatione
> > uirtutumcap. : 2, linea : 24 [] Et eadem sententia est super
> illum
> > uersum: ignitum eloquium tuum uehementer; frigidum pectus non
> capit
> > ignitum eloquium et qui non ardet non incendit.
> > Yours
> > Karl Brunner, Vienna
> >
> > Am 30. Mai 2005 um 19:15 Uhr schrieb McMichael, Steven J.:
> >
> > > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion
> and
> > > culture
> > >
> > > Does anyone know the exact reference to the phrase, "qui
> ardet,
> > > incendit"? I
> > > have found in my perusal of various sources that it has been
> > > attributed to
> > > Augustine, Gregory, and Bernard. I cannot find the exact
> location of
> > > where
> > > this phrase first appears. The phrase appears in a section of
> a
> > text> on
> > > medieval preaching by a fifteenth-century Franciscan I am
> working
> > on.>
> > > Any help will be greatly appreciated.
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > Steven J. McMichael, OFM Conv.
> > > Theology Department
> > > University of Saint Thomas
> > > St. Paul, MN
>
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