In his seminal work, Skinner made not a single reference to the work of
anyone else. He may not be flavour of the month but his work is remembered.
The strength of his evidence and the power of his argument made people take
notice.
Be brave say what you think and why you think it. If the agument holds
water people will listen.
-----Original Message-----
From: Virtual Learning Environments [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf
Of niki lambropoulos
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 7:48 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VLES] How widespread is the use of the term (and the
concept) of e-learning?
You are roght Ken, but after we are gone this is all
the new generations will have.. I workd for 16 years
in schools, educational offices, coordination, project
managemnt and I will be a fool if I think that the
books provided me with what I know. but in the end,
who do you think that people believe... the sad thing
is that I have to get a PhD to justify what I know...
informal learning is not recognised yet. and if I want
to express myself through my work and let people know
my opinions on the subjects then I would bother to get
into the difficult process of writing a book, articles
or even worse speak out loud.
see how many different forms of learning we have here>
we reacted completely, isnt it behaviourism? this is a
mailing list> isnt it informal learning? we observe
each other's behaviour and way of handling things, we
are in a situated framework (observation is basic i
this), and might have a collaborative article as a
community as the result of the process.
according to several theories (I can give you
references, Aristotle was the first ;) if there is no
change of behaviour there is no real learning. this is
the amazing thing in learning, that it helps us
developing ourselves (in any way, not good or bad) as
individuals and collectively. There was a reserch in
the 50s (I like this era because the scientists were
not as superficial as today, the researches were real)
and it revealed that in a conversation nobody will
rememebrs who said what, but what it was said. as such
the community comes first, although developed by the
individuals..
lastly, I think that I got 99% of what I know from all
the interactios I had and 1% from the formal
education.as such I am a strong advocate of informal
learning, especially with issues such as learning how
to learn ,find internal motivation, kindness and
respect for other people in order to be able to hear
what they say instead of living in our heads etc etc
etc..
many thanX,
n
sorry for being a chatterbox..
--- Ken Smith <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I think what Chris is getting at is that what you
> say seems to imply that
> you think that someones published work is worthy of
> more consideration than
> your own original thought. If you really believe
> that then it is indeed a
> sad day.
>
> What really surprises me is that this list has very
> little traffic when
> peeps want to discuss materials or learning
> technology but ask what
> something is being called these days and the world
> and his dog wants to air
> their opinion. A rose by any other name would
> surely smell as sweet.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Virtual Learning Environments
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf
> Of niki lambropoulos
> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 9:16 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VLES] How widespread is the use of the
> term (and the
> concept) of e-learning?
>
>
> they are Chris, this is the evolution of humanity.
> this is all we have left in the end...
> sorry to say that..
>
>
> --- CHRIS JEFFRIES <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > An entirely side issue, but
> >
> > "I know exactly what I am talking about, I can
> give
> > references for every single line :)"
> >
> > encapsulates one of my primary concerns about
> > academia. Why does one always
> > need to hide behind references. As if only someone
> > else's thoughts committed
> > to print and published in a book are worthy of
> > consideration.
> >
> > We are all capable of thought. We each have our
> own
> > unique context within
> > which to have those thougts, and as a result, each
> > of our own personal
> > thoughts has value.
> >
> > OK, so sometimes we "waste time" re-inventing
> > wheels, but naivety also has
> > its value in overturning accepted but untrue
> truths.
> > Perhaps without it we
> > might still be measuring Phlogiston or doing
> > Alchemy.
> >
> > Sorry to go off topic. Coming back on to topic, I
> > won't be cowed by those
> > with more "learning" than me, but I *will* try to
> > stick to topics where I
> > have a valid contributin. Since education therory
> is
> > not one of them, I will
> > now shut up.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > niki lambropoulos writes:
> >
> > > NOorman said that learning happens within the
> head
> > of
> > > the individual. the socal aspect exists but the
> > > individual is the one who is responsible of
> > his/her
> > > own learning wanted or not.
> > >
> > > I know exactly what I am talking about, I can
> give
> > > references for every single line :)
> > > Piagetian Constructivism is often supposed to
> not
> > have
> > > taken into account the interpersonal relations
> > (Crook,
> > > 1994). However, in 1965 Piaget himself
> suggested,
> > �
> > > cooperation � eliminates the process
� of
> > egocentric
> > > thought� (1995:208) since cooperation is
defined
> > as ��
> > > all relations between or more equal, or believed
> > to be
> > > equal, individuals, that is to say, all social
> > > relations in which no element of authority or
> > prestige
> > > is involved� (Piaget, 1995:200).
> > >
> > > everybody is right because are so flexible, so
> > without
> > > definition probably beacause they cannot be
> framed
> > in
> > > one line, one summary, or one concept. what is
> the
> > > differnce for getting infomation the last 3,000
> > years,
> > > instead of reading from rocks we have the
> > interent.
> > > BUT I am the one who backgrounds the unimportant
> > > information and suggests the important
> > information,
> > > only me, and most of the tomes it depends on the
> > > social structures and limitations of myself I
> > carry on
> > > me..
> > >
> > > cheers,
> > > n
> > > PS love flaming, since there is no oppositions
> > when we
> > > have a common subject to talk about :)
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Anita Pincas <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >> I see what you mean, Miguel. But language is
> > open
> > >> to interpretation, and I
> > >> did not interpret Gianni's words as equating
> > >> "constructivitist" with
> > >> "individual based environment". I took the
> > latter
> > >> to be his way of saying
> > >> what we in England would call "learner
> centred".
> > >>
> > >> I think if we were face to face instead of
> > online,
> > >> we would be able to
> > >> reach agreement on various matters more easily.
> > >>
> > >> Anita
> > >>
> > >> At 19:30 07/03/2005, Miguel Nunes wrote:
> > >> ><?xml version="1.0" ?>
> > >> >Well ... I could not disagree more. That was
> one
> > of
> > >> the worst summaries I
> > >> >have read in this list. It confuses a number
> of
> > >> concepts and shows a
> > >> >total misunderstanding of what contructivism
> is.
> > >> Constructivism is
> > >> >absolutely not about an "individual-based
> > >> environment", but in fact about
> > >> >"socio-cultural learning that combines
> > >> collaborative and informal
> > >> >learning". In fact, constructivism is based
> on
> > the
> > >> concept of real world
> > >> >based social interaction and requires
> > multi-faceted
> > >> modes of learning. And
> > >> >... by the way, it is not compatible with the
> > >> objectivist notions of
> > >> >learning that underpin Skinner's behaviourism.
> > I
> > >> think that before having
> > >> >a go at the theorists you could at least have
> > your
> > >> facts right.
> > >> >Miguel
> > >> > > Another excellent summary, in my view. The
> > >> problem with a lot of
> > >> > > theorists is that they do 2desk jobs" on
> > >> learners, without taking
> > >> > > account of the real world, as Niki has
> > pointed
> > >> out. Anita
> > >> > > At 07:28 07/03/2005, niki lambropoulos
> wrote:
> > >> > > Hi Gianni,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I think it depends on what you want. if
> > you
> > >> want a
> > >> > > more constructivist, individual-based
> > >> environemnt then
> > >> > > you have the packages. if you have a
> more
>
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