To supplement David Q's response.
David Healy, who is the former secretary of the British Pharmacology does
address some of the issues that David Q. raises in a recent book " Let
them eat Prozac".
Dr. Healy's research team at the University of Wales College of
Medicine, I believe, actually drew on healthy volunteers ( his staff) in
an experiment to see whether there was a link between suicide and the drug
(s) under consideration. Some of those healthy volunteers ( ie., folks
who did not have a history of clinical depression nor thoughts of suicide)
did seem to present with behavior in a direction that suggested a link
between suicide and the drugs used. But if memory serves me correctly when
I read this text here was also clinical trial data that has been accessed
in various laws suits that also suggest a link between suicide and the drug
(s) under consideration..
For those interested in pursuing the issue from an insider's
perspective who is also a prominent historian on pharmacology and who
presents a nuanced understanding of the science ( or pseudo-science)
involved in testing drugs like Prozac and other drugs of a similar class ,
"Eating Prozac makes for a fascinating read for those of us who are
interested in clinical trial methodology and its regulatory efficacy.
Two other books by David Healey that precede "Let them eat Prozac" and
which are very insightful regarding the issues discussed include:
1. The Anti-Depressant Era - Harvard University Press 1997
2. The Creation of Psychopharmacology - Harvard University Press 2002
List members might also find David's Healy website on these issues of
interest.http://www.healyprozac.com/default.htm
This web site makes available correspondence surrounding issues to do with
ghost writing, efforts to draw attention to the hazards of
anit-depressentants the dramatic changes taking place in academia as an
increasing proportion of clinical research is privatised.
This website explores threats to public safety and academic freedom
surrounding the SSRI group of drugs – Prozac, Zoloft (Lustral), Paxil
(Seroxat/Aropax). It makes available trial transcripts in 3 major cases
involving SSRIs and suicide and homicide.
It also makes available correspondence surrounding issues to do with ghost
writing, efforts to draw attention to the hazards of these drugs and the
dramatic changes taking place in academia as an increasing proportion of
clinical research is privatised.
Mark Wilson
At 02:13 AM 1/19/2005, you wrote:
>Oh Gee.
>
>Ok. How about this: How does research prove conclusively that smoking
>causes lung cancer?
>
> Better example: how do you prove conclusively that eating foods with
> lots of chemicals
> leads to early death?
>
>Or to turn the tabels around: what makes you think that Prozacs benefits
>"millions of peoples"?
>
>How does research prove that?
>
>
>
>Obviously, one can show a relationship exists with something else (e.g.,
>obesity, smoking, lack of exercise/a sedentary life style,
>ingesting high levels of saturated fat AND bad health, heart disease,
>cancer, early death) without it necessarily being
>a rule of thumb.
>
>Isn't this the case with most experimental research on disease(s),
>health-related risks, and so on?
>
>For instance, I know that when I was on anti depressants (initially,
>Clonipramene [spelling?]) as a teenager, my mood drastically changed.
> I went from a very shy, reserved, individual to an extroverted overly
> confident h*ll razer . Consequently, I was a lot more prone to
>to violence. And -- yes -- on a few occasions (at my count, 7 times, two
>in which I came awfully close to succeeding),
>I tried taking my life.
>
>
>Sure the favourite psychiatric defense would be: what-came-first,
>the-drug-or-the-depression.
>IN my case, I can not say 100% for certain (no ifs, ands or buts --
>perfect causality) that drugs caused me to react this way.
>As alluded to, I did turn into a raging psychopath while on meds and
>consequently did do a lot of nasty things
> I would have only previously contenplated in my wildest dreams.
>But who's really to say that it was the drugs that causes all this? It
>could just as easily been some yet to be discovered "rage gene" inside me
> that had been simmering for years and only reached a boiling point upon
> me being administered the anti depressants (including Prozac) for my OCD.
>Again, sure, I have never ONCE tried taking my life *since* getting off
>meds, but what's to say it will never happen to me in the future.
>There is still, at the very least, that 1% chance I could try taking my
>life med-free.
>So, I suppose, for the sake of scientific objectivity, better first to
>elimininate all possible extraenous variables before
>determing for SURE that the drugs is what caused the reaction.
>
>On the other hand, I can say quite confidently that psychiatric drugs are
>what caused my tortocollis (a debilitating movement disorder that
>affects my neck and shoulder area). I know this since it is only (and I
>repeat, ONLY) after I was off the drugs for OCD
> that my severest, most dibilitating symptoms (ie., violent jerking in my
> neck)
>dissipated and
>that everytime I have gone back on the drugs since, the symptoms (violent
>movements) of the tortocollis returned
>
>Again this isn't to say that ALL people taking psychiatric drugs will
>develop these types of side effects. But it certainly suggests that
>it can happen and INDEED does happen for more than a few of the fortunate
>souls who've been the beneficiaries of these medications.
>
>And if research comes out from a reputable medical journal
>suggesting/showing that
>Prozac *CAN* (operative word here!) cause suicidal behaviours, shouldn't
>the public be entitled to this information?
>
>
>
>DOQ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On 18 Jan 2005 at 14:08, Heather Stone wrote:
>
>How can research prove that Prozac, or any other psycho-tropic drug,
>causes suicide?
>if you are taking prozac to begin with, its because you have depression,
>OCD, etc.
>People who have depression may already have suicidal thoughts, or made
>past attempts,
>which is why they sought our psychiatric help in the first
>place. Whether or not a drug causes
>such adverse effects is hard to pin down because we do n't have clones of
>the subjects that
> will ultimately prove it was the drug versus the depression.
>
>Today's society is obsessed with disproving the efficacy of psycho-tropic
>drugs.
>As researchers, we must look past the cultural trends that fear
>psycho-tropic drugs.
>Yes, we must exercise caution when considering any pharmaceutical
>interventions but
> let's not discount the positive effects Prozac has had on millions of
> people. I wonder how many lives it has saved?
>Heather
>
>________________End of message______________________
>
>Archives and tools for the Disability-Research Discussion List
>are now located at:
>
>www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html
>
>You can JOIN or LEAVE the list from this web page.
>
>________________End of message______________________
>
>Archives and tools for the Disability-Research Discussion List
>are now located at:
>
>www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html
>
>You can JOIN or LEAVE the list from this web page.
________________End of message______________________
Archives and tools for the Disability-Research Discussion List
are now located at:
www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/disability-research.html
You can JOIN or LEAVE the list from this web page.
|
