Hi Richard

>Saadi uses, as I understand it, a lot of different forms throughout the
>Gulistan, including rhymed prose, which one translator actually did
>replicate. The problem was that Saadi ended up sounding like Ogden Nash,
>but
>without Nash's humor. A similar thing is true of those 20th century
>translations that have worked to make Saadi rhyme--he often ends up
>sounding
>like Mother Goose or a writer of doggerel. Granted, this may have something
>to do with the skill of the translator, but these translators were not
>amateurs, they spoke and read Persian fluently, and were poets themselves,
>and well-known as translators of other works of classical Persian
>literature. Not an excuse to give up on rhyme, just a small allusion to
>some
>of the difficulties.

We're not in a rhyme-rich language compared to, say, Italian, and compared
to Persian the rhymes we have are miniscule - as i understand it, part of
the skill of the Persian epic poet is in often delighting the audience with
a huge run of rhymes which double into puns on root-sounds, and in using a
variation on the metaphors already used. And then, in Arabic, one meets the
spectacle of text-books and dictionaries written in rhyming forms...

I think where Marvell is an interesting point of contact is in his
metaphysical meditations on - for example - A drop of dew, or else his
longer reflections on the art of government and on the civil war - in verse
and prose.

Best,

Edmund





>
>What it comes down to, I think, is that, based on everything I have read
>and
>my experience listening to Persian poetry, I have decided that, had he
>written in English, Saadi would have written blank verse. It is the form
>that feels right to me, given my own limitations in terms of knowing the
>original, given whatever gifts I have as a poet/translator, and given what
>I
>know of the cultural and historical contexts of Persian poetry, of Persian
>poetry in English translation and of English poetry in general. Of course I
>am, ultimately, "wrong," as all translations are "wrong" in some way, but,
>like I said, it feels right and so I am sticking with it.
>
> >>Do you feel that Saadi is making 'explicit statements'?<<
>
>In the samples I have online, Saadi does not make explicit statements,
>though he does in many other places in The Gulistan. He does it even more,
>I
>think, in the Bustan, which I am working on now. Here, for example, is my
>preliminary draft of "Nushirvan's Advice to Hormuz" (basically a king
>advising his son), which seems to me a good deal closer to Pope and Dryden
>than either Marvell or Donne:
>
>I've heard that with his dying breaths Nushirvan
>advised his son Hormuzd on how to rule:
>"Guarantee the poor their peace of mind.
>Do not allow your privilege to bind you.
>None who call your kingdom home will be
>at peace if privilege is all you live for.
>
>No judge will find a shepherd innocent
>who slept and let the wolf among the sheep.
>Go! Stand guard! Protect the poor and needy.
>The crown you wear would not exist without them.
>
>A tree, my son, is nourished through its roots.
>Just so, a monarch's strength passes to him
>through those he rules. Do not betray their trust
>unless you have to; you'll leave yourself rootless.
>
>Do you need a road to guide you? Hope and fear
>mark the path walked smooth by the devout:
>hope for good; fear of evil. Prudence
>leads a man by nature down that trail.
>Find it in a prince and you have found
>the foundation of his rule. To those who hope,
>he offers his indulgence, hoping himself
>that the Creator will be indulgent as well.
>Fearing the harm that harm brings to those
>who cause it, this prince favors hurting no one.
>A prince who doesn't have these qualities
>will fill his land with conflict and unrest.
>
>If life hobbles you, learn to accept your fate,
>but if you gallop freely, go where you will.
>You'll never have the room you need to run
>in a kingdom where the king abuses power.
>
>Fear the bold and proud among your subjects,
>but fear as well the one who does not fear
>heaven's Just Ruler. A lord who lays waste
>to the hearts of his people will only see in dreams
>the prosperity he wants for his domain.
>Tyranny will earn him only ruin,
>and ruin will be the legacy he leaves.
>
>Look to the future. Sound the depths of these words.
>Your people shelter and support your rule,
>so don't kill anyone without just cause.
>See to the comfort of those who tend your land.
>Their happiness will mean a greater yield.
>To repay with evil the good someone has done you
>is to unman yourself in full public view."
>
>And now I really should be getting back to work on the Bustan. This
>discussion is really, really interesting, though, and very helpful to me.
>It's forcing me to think beyond what I have been thinking and to question
>my
>assumptions, all of which is always to the good.
>
>Rich Newman