At this very moment, in a nerdy Hobby cell, occulted signals
> are wafting out towards the servants of the Ring, while on an antique
> screen the web of Brotherhood emerges through the mist
not bad Martin, you can catch me easily there, I would add some green
Malaysia, and please, plenty of feoffees and why not, Lemon cakes, or Sacher
u. Kaffee mit Sahne since we are there!
Anny Ballardini
http://annyballardini.blogspot.com
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
The aim of the poet is to awaken emotions in the soul, not to gather
admirers.
Stalker, Andrei Tarkovsky
----- Original Message -----
From: "MJ Walker" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: down with the down with poetry crowd
> It would be nice, wouldn't it? Just the right thing for a poet. And
> you're right, of course about those feoffees, though it's not completely
> improbable (At this very moment, in a nerdy Hobby cell, occulted signals
> are wafting out towards the servants of the Ring, while on an antique
> screen the web of Brotherhood emerges through the mist...)
> hmm
> mj
>
> Rebecca Seiferle wrote:
>
> >The Malaysian Flying Academy
> >
> >can't we make it this one instead? but which one did you make up? I'd
guess
> >Middle-earth Feoffee Alliance
> >?
> >
> >best,
> >
> >Rebecca
> >
> >---- Original message ----
> >
> >
> >>Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 10:51:38 +0100
> >>From: MJ Walker <[log in to unmask]>
> >>Subject: Re: down with the down with poetry crowd
> >>To: [log in to unmask]
> >>
> >>Excuse me, I feel really dumb - but I've been reading all these knowing
> >>comments on MFA & its courses for some time now, but just what the hell
> >>is MFA? Google tells me :
> >>Museum for Fine Art, Mutuelle Fraternelle d'Assurance, the Israeli
> >>Government's official website, various Ministries of Foreign Affairs,
> >>Middle-earth Feoffee Alliance, Malta Football Association & Music for
> >>America,
> >>MFA Incorporated (farm supply), Medical Facilities of America, MFA The
> >>Global Voice for the Alternative Investment Industry, Midwest Finance
> >>Association, The Malaysian Flying Academy, MFA Mortgage Investments Inc.
> >>My best guess is Master of Fine Arts. What a weird title, if this is
true!
> >>mj - who made up one of the above, natch
> >>
> >>Mark Weiss wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>I have a hard time imagining that poetry, which staggered along
perfectly
> >>>well with only occasional patronage (in the US at least) for most of
the
> >>>19th and twentieth centuries would shrivel up and die without MFA
> >>>programs.
> >>>O'Hara and Ashbery managed to write a great deal of poetry while
> >>>otherwise
> >>>employed. Whitman likewise, tho with less comfort. Also Niedecker. No
> >>>need
> >>>to make a list--there were occasional university-based critics and
> >>>scholars
> >>>who wrote poetry, but they didn't make a living teaching others how to
> >>>do so.
> >>>
> >>>What would probably disappear is the horde of wannabes--the third-rate
> >>>New
> >>>York School poets bred by Kenneth Koch, the third-rate language poets
> >>>coming out of Buffalo, the third-rate mainstream poets coming out of
> >>>Iowa.
> >>>Many have no real vocation. The hardship of having a day job would weed
> >>>that garden pretty quickly, as it always has in the past.
> >>>
> >>>What strikes me in gatherings of younger poets (I find myself at a
couple
> >>>of these a week now that I'm back in NY) is that after whatever
> >>>reading the
> >>>conversation sounds a lot like the halls of the MLA--it's all
> >>>career-talk,
> >>>and folks wearing the school ties maintaining alliances. So, one's MFA
> >>>cohort publishes one, gives one readings, jobs, etc. And nobody seems
> >>>to be
> >>>talking about poetry.
> >>>
> >>>Talking about poetry in informal settings was in fact the way people
> >>>learned in the past, from the Mermaid Tavern on. It took persistence
and
> >>>determination, and it was often brutal. It seems to have worked at
> >>>least as
> >>>well as the universities--there are an unprecedented number of people
who
> >>>call themselves poets and an unprecedented number of venues in which to
> >>>publish. I'm not aware that there has been a significant increase in
the
> >>>amount of work worth reading.
> >>>
> >>>Mark
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>At 11:22 AM 1/21/2005, you wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> I'm
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>not saying that artists should not be paid - far from it. Nor am I
> >>>>>suggesting that poets should not work in universities.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>Ok, and thanks for the clarification, Alison.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>Well, this arguing among poets
> >>>>>>about what to get rid of, whether we should get poetry booted from
> >>>>>>universities,
> >>>>>>or booted from funding by organizations because their reasons may
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>be less
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>than pure, etc, seems to me somewhat ridiculous.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>Who's saying this?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>Oh, I said it from a sort of overview of this thread, making logical
> >>>>extensions
> >>>>from the various arguments presented here. Bernstein argues
> >>>>against various venues that now exist for poets and poetry on the
> >>>>grounds that
> >>>>they 'water it down', i.e. dilute its purity; Gioia has argued
> >>>>against various
> >>>>venues that now exist for poets and poetry on the grounds that they
> >>>>are too
> >>>>suffocatingly elitist, i.e. ivory towers of academe and MFA programs
and
> >>>>incomprehensible language poets. You seem to imply that deans and
> >>>>universities by viewing poetry, as they do _everything_ as part of a
> >>>>liberal
> >>>>education, devitalize it and create 'protective structures' that make
> >>>>Prynne
> >>>>possible, i.e. hothouses that cultivate a zygotic plant that could
> >>>>not exist
> >>>>elsewhere. If, by extension, we were to get rid of all of these
things,
> >>>>there would
> >>>>be little left, few venues for poets or poetry. If poetry is a feral
> >>>>vocation, and I'm
> >>>>inclined to agree that it is, for whatever one does, whether milking
> >>>>goats or
> >>>>grading English papers or teaching a poetry workshop or writing in
other
> >>>>modes, there is a certain ferality of being wild outside those
> >>>>particular
> >>>>modes,
> >>>>for none of them are writing poetry itself, the actual doing and
process
> >>>>itself,
> >>>>but if it is such, I don't have a problem with there being any number
of
> >>>>environments in which it may disguise itself, find the necessities of
> >>>>survival. I
> >>>>don't think the elimination of environments, however much they may be
> >>>>weeded
> >>>>over, trashed, marked by the casualties of erroneous architecture,
> >>>>will grant
> >>>>more strength or vitality to its feral life, but rather that the
> >>>>elimination of
> >>>>various environments would make it more difficult for that feral life
to
> >>>>survive.
> >>>>I don't know, having felt enough feral in myself, for a number of
> >>>>reasons, I
> >>>>wonder what feral animal wants to be spotted and recognized? the
> >>>>whole point
> >>>>is not to be, if these environments were eliminated, these various
> >>>>impurities which afflict the proper recognition of poetry, it's just
> >>>>the
> >>>>cat in the
> >>>>headlights, extinction.
> >>>>
> >>>>Best,
> >>>>
> >>>>Rebecca
> >>>>---- Original message ----
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:53:41 +1100
> >>>>>From: Alison Croggon <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>>Subject: Re: down with the down with poetry crowd
> >>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>>>
> >>>>>On 21/1/05 5:00 PM, "Rebecca Seiferle" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Well, I'd guess it depends on what 'an academic" is, which is a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>second
> >>>>cousin
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>to
> >>>>>>that insult heard in some circles of being an 'intellectual'.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>I meant simply someone who taught English in a university. Not,
> >>>>>incidentally, a writer, but someone for whom I hold a deal of
respect.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Someone like Prynne is inconceivable outside the protective
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>structures of a
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>university. On the other hand, the idea of career structures or
other
> >>>>>aspects of a "cultural industry" are highly problematic in the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>arts. I'm
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>not saying that artists should not be paid - far from it. Nor am I
> >>>>>suggesting that poets should not work in universities. I don't go
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>in for
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>the popular sport of academic bashing. But nevertheless, there is
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>something
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>feral about the vocation of poetry which ought to be respected and
> >>>>>recognised; it is a bad mistake to think of poetry solely as an
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>aspect of a
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>liberal education.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Well, this arguing among poets
> >>>>>>about what to get rid of, whether we should get poetry booted from
> >>>>>>universities,
> >>>>>>or booted from funding by organizations because their reasons may
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>be less
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>than pure, etc, seems to me somewhat ridiculous.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>Who's saying this?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Best
> >>>>>
> >>>>>A
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Alison Croggon
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com
> >>>>>Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au
> >>>>>Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
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