I think taking offence is a highly personal matter, as I tried to point out in the email etiquette debate some time ago.Taken to extremes you can take offence at anything, of course.
The question is was the person trying to be offensive, or is there another way in which the remark can be taken. I also think that considerable latitude should be allowed - wounded egos do mend, you know.
I think Sue was raising an option Andy hadn't considered. I agree about ridiculous games of semantics if this means arguing about words. Technically, however, semantics is a study of meaning, or between words and what they signify - very important, that.
On a lighter note, it involves questions like do you say what you mean when you mean what you say. I seem to remember an argument between Alice and the Mad Hatter ... :-)
Gordon.
Gordon Smith
The Sally Howell Library
Epsom General Hospital
Dorking Road
Epsom, Surrey, KT18 7EG
Tel. 01372-735688, Fax 01372-735687
NULJ=HOWE, HLN=EP
<<Cela est bien dit>> rEpondit Candide
<<mais il faut cultiver notre jardin>>. - Voltaire.
>>> Andy Prue <[log in to unmask]> 04/08/2005 13:47:24 >>>
Sue,
The point is that the comments made were extremely irreverent regardless of
the context in which they were used.
As a profession we should not be making these sorts of assumptions on a list
such as this.
Maybe I'm missing the point (and somebody please correct me if I am), but
wasting time on a ridiculous game of semantics is surely a waste of this
lists efforts, when it should be directing its attentions to more pressing
concerns.
Andy
-----Original Message-----
From: UK medical/ health care library community / information workers
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Merriott Sue
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 1:18 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Change in job title
I would imagine it's an anecdotal-based comment!
Sue
Sue Merriott
Library Services Manager
Worthing Postgraduate Centre
Park Avenue
Worthing BN11 2HR
01903 285025
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: UK medical/ health care library community / information workers
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Andy Prue
Sent: 04 August 2005 13:15
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Change in job title
"Whether they'll get anyone who can string a sentence
together on that money though is another question"
Is this an evidence-based observation or an ill-founded assumption?
I think comments like this should be avoided as I'm sure it's bound to cause
offence!
Andy Prue
Web Development Librarian
Health Libraries Network
http://stlis.thenhs.com
-----Original Message-----
From: UK medical/ health care library community / information workers
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of John Gale
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 12:49 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Change in job title
Agreed. Nomenclature notwithstanding it's probably a good thing to have more
people out and about interacting with the readers rather than stuck behind
desks all the time. Whether they'll get anyone who can string a sentence
together on that money though is another question ...
Quoting "Rowley, Margaret (Charles Hastings)"
<[log in to unmask]>:
> A 'floor walker' was of course a senior member of the sales team in a
> retail store responsible for saying 'can I help you sir/madam?' and
> referring the customer to the appropriate sales assistant (as in 'Are
> you being served?'. I would put 'floor assistant' more into this
> category - customer service rather than cleaning.
>
> Margaret Rowley BSc MA MCLIP DMS
> Head of Knowledge Management
> Rowlands Library
> Charles Hastings Education Centre
> Worcestershire Royal Hospital
> Charles Hastings Way
> Worcester
> WR5 1DD
>
> Tel: 01905 760601 (direct)
> 01905 763333 ext 33765
> Fax: 01905 760866 (direct)
> 33761 (internal)
> Email: [log in to unmask]
> -----Original Message-----
> From: UK medical/ health care library community / information workers
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gordon Smith
> Sent: 03 August 2005 11:04
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Change in job title
>
> If I was asked what "floor assistant" conveyed to me, I would probably
> say cleaner. Could I point out that "a requirement for manual handling"
> could cover dustpan and brush, a bucket and mop, etc. :-)
>
> Gordon.
>
>
> Gordon Smith
> The Sally Howell Library
> Epsom General Hospital
> Dorking Road
> Epsom, Surrey, KT18 7EG
> Tel. 01372-735688, Fax 01372-735687
> NULJ=HOWE, HLN=EP
>
> <<Cela est bien dit>> rEpondit Candide
> <<mais il faut cultiver notre jardin>>. - Voltaire.
>
> >>> "Stewart, Chloe" <[log in to unmask]> 03/08/2005
> 10:56:04 >>>
> I like Knowledge Choreographer but apparently it's not allowed as an
> Agenda
> for Change job title.
> I agree that 'Floor assistant' is misleading but don't like the
> 'demeaning'
> claim - estates jobs aren't demeaning and in the NHS at least they're
> life-saving.
>
> Chloe Stewart
> Library Manager (Clinical Services)
> Library & Learning Centre
> Stobhill Hospital
> 133 Balornock Road
> Glasgow
> G21 3UW
> Tel: 0141 201 3357
> Fax: 0141 201 3357
> Email: [log in to unmask]
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Juliet brown [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 03 August 2005 10:52
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Change in job title
>
>
> Heheheheheeee personally I love that title. When my husband got a
> promotion
> at work he was toldl he could pick his title and I suggested he was a
> Professor of "clever things", he was not amused, he chose to be Prof of
> numerical geosciences (how boring - but he does basically count gravel
> as a
> living). I wonder what a non information librarian does.... if I ever
> find
> one I will have to ask.
> J
>
> Juliet Brown
> Medical Librarian - Vale of Leven DGH
> Never lend books, for no one ever returns them. The only books I have
> in my
> library are books that other folks have leant me.
> (Anatole France)
> The information contained in this message may be confidential
> or legally privileged and is intended for the addresseee only.
> If you have received this message in error or there are any
> problems, please notify the originator immediately.
>
> The unauthorised use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this
> message is strictly forbidden.
>
> >>> "Gray, Geraldine" <[log in to unmask]> 08/03/05 10:55am >>>
> Talking about Job titles, I agree with Malcolm it does sound like an
> amalgam
> between porter/security and library assistant. Can I add another
> bete-noire
> of mine...cannot say how much I am irritated by the title ..Information
> Librarian
>
> Geraldine
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Juliet brown [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 03 August 2005 10:40
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Change in job title
>
>
> hmmmm floor assistants - an ideal job for a floozie called flo. Sorry,
> couldn't help that. I'm suprised they don't ask for a bit of carpet
> laying
> or polishing while they are at it. Perhaps it is just a true reflection
> of
> what people think. Must be other wonderful titles out there for our
> jobs
> cheers, J
> (information carer?/wild book handler?)
>
> Juliet Brown
> Medical Librarian - Vale of Leven DGH
> Never lend books, for no one ever returns them. The only books I have
> in my
> library are books that other folks have leant me.
> (Anatole France)
> The information contained in this message may be confidential
> or legally privileged and is intended for the addresseee only.
> If you have received this message in error or there are any
> problems, please notify the originator immediately.
>
> The unauthorised use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this
> message is strictly forbidden.
>
> >>> Ann Brew <[log in to unmask]> 08/03/05 10:02am >>>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Has anyone else seen this advert and been horrified by the completely
> demeaning title ?
>
> http://www.platform2recruit.co.uk/universityoflondon/pages/jobdetails.as
> p?id
> =1490
>
> Perhaps someone from the relevant department (Library, HR, Recruitment
> Office ?) could explain in exactly what way a floor assistant differs
> from
> a library assistant ? I've taken a look at the job description and it
> seems
> suspiciously similar to library assistant tasks...
>
> "You will work at the Membership and Circulation and Bibliographic
> service-points performing a range of front of house and manual support
> duties, including dealing with user enquiries, the issue, return and
> renewal of books, servicing the Closed Stack collection, and moving
> bookstock. You will also provide support across a range of routine
> activities related to the maintenance of book stacks and the up-keep of
> the
> library areas in general.
> Previous experience of working in a customer service or similar
> environment
> is required and you must possess a helpful and friendly demeanour
> combined
> with the ability to undertake a number of tasks simultaneously in such a
> way as to be immediately helpful to library visitors and users. A good
> team
> member, able to work independently to meet set targets, you will have
> basic
> keyboarding skills and the ability to acquire new skills on standard
> library systems.
> The duties of the post involve a requirement for the manual handling and
> movement of furniture, equipment and library bookstock and some
> Evening/Saturday duties."
>
> Is this where the library profession is going ? Removing the word
> 'library'
> from all our titles so people will never understand what we do ?
>
> Ann-Emily Brew
> Assistant Librarian
>
> BMA Library
> British Medical Association
> BMA House
> Tavistock Square
> London
> WC1H 9JP
>
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--
Keep up to date with mental health at http://mentalhealthupdate.blogspot.com
John Gale
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