I suggest we have a time in the operations workshop to go through the
rationale behind the VO boxes, and all the issues associated with them.
Could I propose that someone representing the sites views (Jeff, John??)
could prepare a summary of fabric/site concerns and I will present the
view from the basline services. It would be nice if an experiment
person could summarise their side too. Theses boxes should not be a
free-for-all - there should be some constraints, and we need to
understand what those should be.
Ian
> -----Original Message-----
> From: LHC Computer Grid - Rollout
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Templon
> Sent: 06 September 2005 21:52
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [LCG-ROLLOUT] LCG-2_7_0 sooner or later ....
>
> My take:
>
> I was at the 'hotly debated' meeting and indeed there was lots of
> resistance; I would have liked to have said no but I saw no other
> alternative, both from the HEP side (where is the generic
> software that
> will do what their VO software is going to do??) and from the Tier-1
> side (will anyone send us jobs if we don't install a VO box?)
>
> On the other hand, there are clear no-nos and these have not changed.
> We are providing the boxes as a service to the VO in the hope that
> something better will appear sometime. After all it looks
> like the SGM
> installation area may finally go away, and Tank and Spark may
> be dead,
> so there is reason to have at least some hope of poor solutions not
> becoming permanent. Service here should be understood as hospitality
> ... we want to help. We all want this to work. However if
> you spit on
> your host's carpet he may ask you to leave. The solution for
> us to to
> help the VOs now, also help push for generic solutions for the long
> term, and to make it very clear that if the VO box starts to
> interfere
> with or degrade the quality of our generic Tier-1 services,
> it will be
> turned off. I think that message has been receieved by the
> experiments,
> I don't see problems.
>
> J 'my god what an optimist' T
>
> Gordon, JC (John) wrote:
> > Markus, it would be good to hear from Jamie and Ian on the
> decision. The
> > agreement of Tier1s has been with distinct reservations as we still
> > don't know what the VOs will do with these boxes. Alice
> have given some
> > information - lists of software but not details of how they
> will be used
> > - and even if we are happy with what runs at first, there seems no
> > control over what happens subsequently. So not to be
> obstructive we have
> > agreed but are keeping a close watch and will take action if we see
> > problems.
> >
> > RAL have set up a VObox for Alice although we still have a firewall
> > problem. The other UK sites will wait and see how we get on. For the
> > moment we are happy to talk about HOW but I am sure we
> won't be the only
> > site who considers WHETHER if VOs are felt to be abusing
> the privilege.
> >
> > I am not sure I agree with you on the VO box being the more
> secure way
> > of working. By having the VO box installed you have
> persuaded sites to
> > put aside their security concerns. If the VOs had to
> justify what they
> > were doing sites would feel happier that they weren't
> installing some
> > trojan that will cause problems with their site security people.
> >
> > I don't mean that VOs should negotiate with each site but I
> would like
> > to think that someone somewhere knew what was being
> installed and had at
> > least thought about possible problems and could reassure
> the rest of us.
> > I don't really mind who this is. It could be you or some
> other person
> > who we all respect and who is independent of the experiments.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: LHC Computer Grid - Rollout
> >>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Markus Schulz
> >>Sent: 06 September 2005 12:33
> >>To: [log in to unmask]
> >>Subject: Re: [LCG-ROLLOUT] LCG-2_7_0 sooner or later ....
> >>
> >>Hi Alessandra,
> >>yes, there is additional documentation made available by Simone
> >>Campana in wiki. http://goc.grid.sinica.edu.tw/gocwiki/VOBOX_HowTo
> >>In addition the release note contained quite some material.
> >>
> >>We can discuss the box there, however for the Tier-1 centers
> >>the fact
> >>that there are VO-BOXES has been already decided and agreed by the
> >>site managers of the T1s. Jamie and Ian can give you more
> >>details on
> >>the state of this decision.
> >>
> >>If we discuss this at the workshop we must ensure that we
> don't try
> >>to revert this decision. The discussion has to be focused on the
> >>"how" and not on the "wether".
> >>
> >>
> >> markus
>
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