Dear Tim,

Thanks for your post.

As I understand it, you are saying that you have noticed a trend on
the list, i.e., that a growing number of posts are from British
members who have little knowledge of the history of avant-garde poetry
and in fact have a poetics more related to the 1950s than the present.

Is this really the case & what to do?

One fun thing to do might be to touch on the history of the
avant-garde decade-by-decade from the beginning of the 20th century,
or even from the end of the 19th century, starting with Hopkins if
that is at all appropriate! I think, imaginatively, I am probably
back there in the late 20s and early 30s with the European
Avant-Garde, even though I'm sure I would have been in another time,
another place, if I had actually been present at the time. And of
course I couldn't exist as the poetic creature I am without feminist
poetry of the 70s.

Would people be willing to adopt a decade, or participate in
conversation decade-by-decade so we can collectively mull over the
specifically British & Irish tradition of innovative poetry: obviously
that's a big and complicated job, not least because the term
innovative is contemporary.

I'm quite puzzled about Modernism in Irish poetry after Yeats. What
happened and why. I expect Trevor knows a lot about this. Anyway: if
anyone is interested in adopting or co-opting a decade for the
purposes of historical and
aesthetic elucidation, jump right in.

Mairead

On 8/28/05, [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Mairead:
> >"Your perception that "the majority of posts are from people not
> involved in 'postmodern' or 'innovative' British poetry" is
> debatable. The majority of members are British, I would say."<
>
> I was not just referring to nationality, a high proportion of the British
> posters do not seem to be directly involved with 'postmodern' or
> 'linguistically innovative poetry'.
>
> >"I'm interested to know why you focus on British rather than British &
> Irish here."<
>
> Sorry Mairead, you're quite right, and of course contrary to my comment
> above, most of the Irish contributors are 'directly involved in postmodern
> or innovative poetry'.
>
> Thinking more about this changing list, it is worth considering that a lot
> of the most serious spats here have been down to misunderstandings with
> regard to the position and problems of the English avant garde. To my
> reckoning more than one long term subscriber has gone due to a build-up of
> exasperation with this situation. You read a post by someone who obviously
> knows nothing about the history of avant garde poetry and has opinions about
> literature that could come straight from the 1950's, you answer them
> according to your levels of irritation then get slammed by others for trying
> to defend the ideas which lie behind the types of poetry which, as Geraldine
> says, most of us originally thought the list was here to discuss.
>
> Don't get me wrong on this - I must emphasise that I am all for plurality
> and a wide spectrum of debate - let's talk about whatever somebody wants to
> talk about, if we want - and I am most definitely not saying that there is
> any smooth concessus of opinion and interest regarding the 'postmodern'
> which could be tapped into because as I said in my last post, the field is
> varied. I have some very sharp differences of opinion with regard to certain
> areas in the field, don't I cris, but what I do know is that this is the
> right place to discuss them. But will it be the right place if this trend
> continues?
>
> all the best
> Tim A.