I'm even more way back than Anny in reading the academic poetry
cluster of threads. Boy am I glad to have made cris's list!
For me, gender is a key issue in this question. MFA programs offer a
viable alternative to other poetry cultures, e.g., the pub/poetry
culture which I was familiar with in Ireland, especially for women,
and especially for single women with children, among whose number I
am. I have tried a few times to write a post on this subject and each
time it gets tangled in difficult autobiography. Suffice to say that
I feel MFA programs offer women a structure for poetry
community/exchange, as workshops in other contexts do. A PhD seemed
the logical degree for my purposes as I wanted maximum freedom in
terms of what I could teach and an MFA could restrict my teaching to
creative writing; also of course, I needed a job: like cris I returned
to college in my mid-to-late 30s. I also had small children.
Before I turned to teaching I was running an arts centre in Limerick:
not conducive to either poetry or parenting. I taught in a
comprehensive school in Dublin for 2 years and loved it: but there was
no expectation that I would get a full-time job any time soon. The
amazing thing about America for me was that I did a master's in poetry
(great: I got to write more), then a PhD in literature (great: I got
to read more, and write a new philosophy for myself), and then I got a
job! There was something amazingly logical and unexpected about
that: you know, after the 80s in Ireland where I think I learned
hopelessness. I think teaching makes it possible for me to support my
children, just about, and be with them, and to write, just about.
I also like the job. I'm not too sure what Tim means by academic
poetry. I do think, unfortunately (and this is not what I once
believed) that the more I get into poetry the less efficient I get, in
many ways. I feel many tensions, though not as Tim describes.
Anyway: this is my place-mark for changing contexts hospitable to
changing poets.
Mairead
On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 16:24:41 +0100, Anny Ballardini
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> And no, I don't like PRISONERS (wouldn't know where to put them), still some
> due cleaning up would be good to brighten out the day and get together
> instead of being continuously torn apart.
>
>
> Anny Ballardini
> http://annyballardini.blogspot.com
> http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
> The aim of the poet is to awaken emotions in the soul, not to gather
> admirers.
> Stalker, Andrei Tarkovsky
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Upton" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 3:17 PM
> Subject: Re: Academic Verse
>
> > cris
> >
> > yes, yes, being mediocre is primarily uninteresting
> >
> > apart from asking - how come that clever / gifted / interesting person
> > failed to deliver
> >
> > making an impact on you, me, selected others is interesting from my p o v;
> > making an impact in some places is not necessarily being interesting to me
> >
> > a highwayman came riding and adelstrop however you spell it have made a
> big
> > impact on Poetry Pleas for instance
> >
> > not that i dont like both to some degree, the latter particularly, but
> only
> > in a flanders and swan sort of way, and not all the time - it gets like
> the
> > peacock novel and the garden designed to surprise
> >
> > speaking of which, given your sartorial position, peacocks are selling
> > boxers 2 for 1
> >
> > and its worth looking at stead and simpson's sale if you've got a boot
> > mender who will strengthen them - by such means does one remain an artist
> > and eating
> >
> > Anny - get well soon - know what you mean. You dont take prisoners, do
> you?
> > I'm not sure I go all the way with that...
> >
> > or maybe I do
> >
> > It's a view of the artist which hasn't always applied - maybe it should
> have
> > done
> >
> > ... PLEASE WAIT...
> >
> > a-ciao
> >
> > L
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cris cheek <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
> > Date: 08 February 2005 13:58
> > Subject: Re: Academic Verse
> >
> >
> > >quite right
> > >
> > >although i would understand being interesting AS making an impact
> > >
> > >bit of a skewing there, although i understand what you're saying when
> > >you read it thata way around, i still intend that as above. As i would
> > >also read the other the other way around, that being mediocre is not
> > >being very interesting. I mean, mediocrity is perhaps of some interest,
> > >but not by much. I'm not wearing underwear today so the twist isn't
> > >punishing me.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >On 8 Feb 2005, at 13:17, Lawrence Upton wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hang on
> > >>
> > >> Not making an impact and not being very interesting and not
> > >> necessarily the
> > >> same thing
> > >> Not being very interesting is not the same thing as being mediocre /
> > >> incompetent
> > >>
> > >> Making an impact is partly a curatorial function; and a failure to
> > >> make an
> > >> impact may be to do with others manipulating the exchanges of poetics
> > >> into a
> > >> market biased towards themselves
> > >>
> > >> Otherrwise, er, yes
> > >>
> > >> L
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: cris cheek <[log in to unmask]>
> > >> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
> > >> Date: 08 February 2005 12:15
> > >> Subject: Re: Academic Verse
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> There have
> > >>> always been lots of not very interesting poets and there will continue
> > >>> to be. From a given group of arts students, historians, writers,
> > >>> philosophers, chemists &c very few will go on to make any impact upon
> > >>> their field of enthusiasm, don't you think. So, why the problem
> > >>> specifically with artists and poets? So, there is a lot of mediocre
> > >>> competency about. That's no bad thing - or is it?
> > >>>
> > >>> love and love
> > >>> cris
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
>
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