JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for ALLSTAT Archives


ALLSTAT Archives

ALLSTAT Archives


allstat@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

ALLSTAT Home

ALLSTAT Home

ALLSTAT  2005

ALLSTAT 2005

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

QUERY 2 : ANOVA Type 1 & 3 SS - clarification

From:

Nigel Marriott <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Tue, 2 Aug 2005 16:01:42 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (65 lines)

To everyone

Thank you to everyone who responded to my original query on Type 1 & 3 SS in ANOVA.  In trying to describe the background, I think I might have confused some people.  Therefore I would like to clarify a few things.

The data is supposed to be liking scores (on a 1 to 7 scale) for 9 variants of a confectionery from 200 consumers per product.  Unfortunately no data was collected for 1 product as below due to a misunderstanding i.e. the N/A cell is empty making this an incomplete design.

          @8wks     @16wks     @24wks
Std       5.38      5.39       5.20
AltI      5.40      5.43       5.15
AltP      5.50      5.35       N/A

The Mean Square Error is 1.5 on 1649 df.

The 2 factors shown are Product Type (Std, AltP, AltI) and product Age (8, 16, 24 weeks).  Ideally there should have been a fourth product type in the design but this was overlooked by the original project team.

There is in fact a third factor which is type of consumer (using a very simple clustering method as follows)

0 : They have not bought the product and it is not a favourite.
1 : They have bought the product but it is not a favourite.
2 : They have bought the product and it is a favourite.

Originally I analysed the data using XLSTAT (an excel add-in) which was only capable of Type 1 & 3 SS.  Following feedback from some of you, I reanalysed using STATISTICA which is also capable of Type 2 SS.  The F statistics for each type of SS and type of model are given below.

            Type 3 SS   	Type 2 SS
Effect	df  F3    F2	F1	 F3    F2    F1
Product	2   0.97  1.11	0.12	 0.11  0.11  0.12
Age	2   0.77  0.93	4.16	 4.12  4.13  4.16
Consumr	2  19.82 19.25 22.35	22.15 22.22 22.35
PxA	3   0.24  0.57	         0.57  0.57	
PxC	4   1.09  1.19	         1.19  1.19	
AxC	4   0.56  0.53	         0.53  0.53	
PxAxC	6   0.16                 0.16		
MS Error is 1.5 on 1649df

Where
F3 - Interactions up to degree 3 i.e. full model
F2 - Interactions up to degree 2
F1 - No interactions i.e. main effects model.

These values show that with no significant interactions are present the main effects model is the correct one for drawing conclusions.  In this case both Type 2 and 3 SS will give the same results.  But I had based my original query on the Type 3 SS full model whilst ignoring the interactions and the Consumer term.  I had not appreciated the fact that the significance of the Age factor would change so dramatically once the interaction terms were removed.  However in the Type 2 (and Type 1 models) removal of the interaction terms does not change the significance of the main effects much.

I am left with the impression that Type 2 SS is the most appropriate choice.  Type 1's are dependent on the order in which the 3 factors are presented and in this study there is no natural order to the factors.  Type 3's are not order dependent but there is a big risk on being misled as to the significance of the main effects when interactions are included in the models as has happened here.  Type 2's seem to get around both of these issues.

Three other comments I would like to make.

First, I tried each one of the 6 possible orders of the 3 main effects when doing the Type 1 SS models and discovered that the SS for each effect in Type 3 SS appeared to be the minimum SS obtained for that effect from the 6 potential Type 1 SS models.  Is this how Type 3 SS is supposed to work?

Second, someone has suggested that Type 4 SS would be suitable.  What is the difference between this and the other types.

Lastly, in general will an incomplete design as happened here exacerbate the difference in results obtained from Type 1, 2, 3 or 4 SS?

Overall I have learnt a lot from your feedback so far but I would greatly appreciate any more feedback on what I have written here.

Regards

Nigel Marriott
Senior Statistician
R&D, Masterfoods Europe


-----------------------------------------
Email sent from www.ntlworld.com
Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software 
Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

May 2024
April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager