Hi Flick
your e-mail just arrived.
I have included it in my response and the report I'm putting together. 
As I am also questioning the Licensing Act 2003 where organisations are 
getting through approval on grandfather clauses when the demographics 
have changed with more older and disabled people and even young children 
on licensed premises today.
talking to fire and ambulance people they are both worried about the 
situation.
Regards
Dave

Flick Harris wrote:

> Hi Dave,
>
> Sounds like a great example to include in the consultation response!
>
> Re. how was it ever passed - sounds like the planning and building 
> control sections need urgent training and maybe the development of 
> some departmental policies with the local authority.
>
> We have just started some joint work with the Greater Manchester 
> Police to develop joint guidance on security and access issues and 
> have found that we share many of the same concerns. We hope that this 
> can be replicated with the Fire Services and that any guidance we 
> produce can be used, eventually, across Greater Manchester.
>
> We all agreed that the designers and others tend not to understand how 
> space will be used, they usually ignore the inevitable management 
> issues that result from their designs, and that usually developers go 
> for the cheap option!
>
> Best wishes
>
> Flick
>
>
> At 09:34 18/10/2005 +0100, you wrote:
>
>> Hi All
>> to develop on John and Terry's comments re Ambulance & Part M
>>
>> Yesterday I attended the opening of a new 2 story museum.
>>
>> there were
>>
>>    22 wheelchair riders (assorted chair types)
>>    7 scooters riders
>>    5 pushchair passengers
>>    I'd guess another 10 to 20 people who could not walk down stairs 
>> unaided
>>    plus three people with low vision who needed help on stairs
>>
>>
>> the museum has refuge space for about 6 wheelchairs at the top of 
>> outdoor, open plan, polished steel, stepped evacuation stairs which 
>> do not have nosing contrast, and have nice stainless steel handrails
>>
>> can anybody explain
>> 1. what would be the likely survival rate?
>> 2. how this building was ever passed through planning and building 
>> regs, licensing and fire inspection?
>>
>> the museum had organised plenty of staff and made plans for this 
>> occasion, but what if this number of people attended another function 
>> on a normal working day with standard staffing levels. ?
>>
>> The new guidance for Part B 2005 only allows for one refuge on a 
>> floor (all be it larger than the 900 x 1500 of the old ADB 2000/EuAm 
>> 01) and does not address the problem the above number of people 
>> needing assistance would generate for people with disabilities which 
>> make use of stairs difficult/impossible.
>> I have tried writing to the ODPM's office about this problem but have 
>> received no answer.
>>
>>    Anybody found similar problems? or
>>    have suggestions in how this type of problem can be addressed.?
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> Dave Croft
>> PS any comments Cass
>>
>>>
>>
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>>
>> Run by SURFACE for more information on research, consultancy and the 
>> distance taught MSc. in Accessibility and Inclusive Design programme 
>> visit:
>>
>> http://www.inclusive-design.it
>>
>> Archives for the Accessibuilt discussion list are located at 
>> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/accessibuilt.html
>>
>
> Chair, MDPAG (Manchester Disabled People's Access Group)
> Office: [log in to unmask]
> Tel: 0161 273 5033
> Fax: 0161 273 2637
> Website: http://www.mdpag.org.uk
> Personal: [log in to unmask]
>
> ----------End of Message----------
>
> Run by SURFACE for more information on research, consultancy and the 
> distance taught MSc. in Accessibility and Inclusive Design programme 
> visit:
>
> http://www.inclusive-design.it
>
> Archives for the Accessibuilt discussion list are located at 
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/accessibuilt.html
>
>

----------End of Message----------

Run by SURFACE for more information on research, consultancy and the distance taught MSc. in Accessibility and Inclusive Design programme visit:

http://www.inclusive-design.it

Archives for the Accessibuilt discussion list are located at http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/accessibuilt.html