Hi Ian
have you considered turning a section of the approach corridor into a 
refuge space?
You'd need to check the fire resistance of the corridor construction but 
most are likely suitable. Then it is only the cost of a new door.
another route convert the room next the the stairs into a refuge, this 
can be used for other purposes so long as the room contents are not 
hazardous, this could be done if the structure is OK and you can knock a 
door through to the stairs.
as to wheelchair sizes if doors are double no problem but if you have 
lecture rooms these often have wide single doors and this could lead to 
people not realising that the door on the escape route is narrower, if 
that is the case.
the smaller refuge would be OK for man and dog plus one or two others if 
there are no wheelchairs. But scooters and outdoor powered chairs are 
becoming more common these days and you are definitely looking at a need 
for a wider space don't forget scooters are dismounted from the side.

Dave

Ian Watkins wrote:

>Satoshi, Marcus, Dave, and Flick
>
>Thanks very much for your comments. It raised some things I hadn’t thought
>about. The safe refuge areas we were considering were to be located on the
>stairway to offer improved fire (and smoke) protection. The alternative
>would be to wait in a corridor with none of the above. We have also made the
>recommendation that existing lifts be upgraded to evacuation lifts. This
>particular refuge site would be adjacent to one such lift and be used in
>conjunction with it we hope. 
>
>Flick, I think that you still need refuges if you have an evacuation lift as
>the lift cannot be operated from the lift landing call controls when it is
>being used as an evacuation lift. You would therefore need somewhere for a
>person to await rescue and a means for that person to indicate that they are
>where they are. BS5588 also says an evacuation lift should be associated
>with a refuge. We have no intention of making refuges smaller, just
>installing one where there is nothing at the moment, and making it as big as
>it can be. The existing building design is the limitation.
>
>Dave with respect to wheelchair sizes, I agree that some would be too big
>for a smaller refuge. However, wouldn't wheelchairs with a wheelbase of
>1000mm have difficulties getting through the fire doors to get to the refuge
>area in the first place? And, as Marcus says, even a full size refuge would
>be no good for two people. I also agree that it is not just wheelchair users
>who need a refuge which is why I feel that some refuge space is better than
>none. I have just stood in a corner with my dog and found that I occupy a
>space of less than 700x1000mm. So I think a refuge of the reduced size
>available would accommodate such a person without obstructing egress for
>others.
>
>I suppose it can never be an exact science. My wife gets involved with
>aircraft evacuation research (as a stand-in passenger). If you give the
>first 10 people out of the plane £10, nobody uses the gangways any more,
>they just climb over the seats! Behaviour in a real emergency is probably
>another factor to be considered. Would a person really remain in the safe
>refuge area in a real fire or would they try to go down the stairs, which
>may block the escape route anyway?
>
>Very many thanks for you comments- most thought provoking!
>
>Kind regards
>Ian
>
>Ian Watkins BSc MSc NRAC Auditor
>Director
>Consultability Limited
>Spinney Cottage
>High Street
>Dadford
>Bucks
>MK18 5JX
> 
>www.consultability.co.uk
> 
>Tel: 01280 823863
>Mobile: 07974233894
> 
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
>Satoshi Kose
>Sent: 20 September 2005 14:32
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [ACCESSIBUILT] Refuge sizes
>
>Dear Marcus:
>
>I have been involved in this issue for almost twenty years, and I 
>know there are too many factors to be considered.
>
>I gave my answer in one short sentence, which some of you do not prefer....
>
>Satoshi
>
>
>At 22:18 05/09/20, you wrote:
>  
>
>>Dear Ian and Satoshi
>>
>>I would suggest that the answer is not that simple as it depends on what
>>    
>>
>
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>Run by SURFACE for more information on research, consultancy and the distance taught MSc. in Accessibility and Inclusive Design programme visit:
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>
>  
>

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