This is very discomfoting to me, as a member of the christian +left+, yes,
it does exist, and for our sins we have to put up with the eternal
embarrassment of association with the God-squad, we'd like to hate them but
we're not supposed to do that, I dunno, we just believe in something like a
notion of radical innocence, hopeless really, in this fallen world.
Best
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Day" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: Geoffrey Hill: The Orchards of Syon
And right on cue - I couldn't make this up - Blair introduces *his*
Education White Paper basically handing over the education system to
whoever wants it. That's not wuite right: he's *paying people to take
it off his hands. Step forward the christian right. They never had it
so good.
Roger
On 10/25/05, Joanna Boulter <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Day" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 4:19 PM
> Subject: Re: Geoffrey Hill: The Orchards of Syon
>
>
> Well, we've gotten back to Paley's arguments. I guess we're going to
> be treated to the spectacle of rewinding the whole debate. My
> grandparents believed wholeheartedly in the bible as literal fact.
> They would have been creationists if the phrase had been invented.
>
> The US christian right thing is particularly scary because blair seems
> intent on importing elements of it into this country. There are
> already creationists teaching in schools in the north using debating
> tactics similar to that of "intelligent" design.
>
> Roger
>
> Yeah, there are indeed. Those of us up here in the north who are in the
> habit of thinking a bit find it disturbing.
>
> joanna
>
> On 10/25/05, Douglas Clark <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > I forgot to mention the keyword Intelligent Design which anyone with an
> > elementary knowledge of biology knows is ridiculous.
> >
> > Douglas Clark, Bath, Somerset, England ....
> > http://www.dgdclynx.plus.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Douglas Clark" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 3:26 PM
> > Subject: Re: Geoffrey Hill: The Orchards of Syon
> >
> >
> > >I have a bad feeling about Warwick at the moment, although my niece
> > >graduated there, cos Steve Fuller, the Sociology prof is giving
evidence
> > >in
> > >support of Behe at the Kansas evolution trial. These people who oppose
> > >the
> > >Enlightenment are very much concentrated in Sociology departments where
> > >they argue that Science is just another discourse.
> > >
> > > Douglas Clark, Bath, Somerset, England ....
> > > http://www.dgdclynx.plus.com
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Dominic Fox" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 2:05 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Geoffrey Hill: The Orchards of Syon
> > >
> > >
> > > I saw Hill at Warwick University, where lots of other academic types
> > > had also come to see him (there was some conference on, which I wasn't
> > > part of). So I went and I stood on my own, and I left on my own, and
> > > shortly after that I gave up my PhD on Hill altogether. I think the
> > > clincher was standing in line to have my copy of Speech! Speech!
> > > signed, and the chap in front of me saying to Hill that he was writing
> > > a thesis on him, and could he please inscribe the book with something
> > > encouraging like "don't give up! love, G.H.". Poor fellow, I wish him
> > > no ill will, but a sort of terrible self-disgust welled up in me at
> > > that moment. I did not confide my own aspirations to the great man: I
> > > told him that I had liked the book very much, thanked him for signing
> > > it, and left it at that.
> > >
> > > Hill himself was quite unlike the burly, black-cloaked figure
> > > declaiming through clenched teeth that one might have been expecting
> > > (although he is quite big). There was a touch of the music hall
> > > performer about him, in fact; he made a great show of drinking a glass
> > > of water. Quite a musical voice - he was *performing* the work, and
> > > its voices - so by turns discursive, lecturing, declamatory,
> > > soliloquising and so on. He got quite a few laughs, especially out of
> > > the material from Speech! Speech! People do rather miss the comedy in
> > > Hill (I miss it myself, in much of The Orchards of Syon, although it
> > > has its moments). There was also, this being a room full of academics,
> > > a fair amount of scribbling in notebooks as he brought the new stuff
> > > out. Not my idea of how you listen to poetry, but then I was cribbing
> > > from him on a deeper level. Or at least that was what I wanted to tell
> > > myself.
> > >
> > > Dominic
> > >
> > > On 10/25/05, Joanna Boulter <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >> You've seen him read? Wow!
> > >>
> > >> What's he like as a reader? I mean, rhetorical, soliloquising, or a
> > >> twist
> > >> between incantatory and vicious -- I could imagine any of those
styles
> > >> fitting with the work.
> > >>
> > >> joanna
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Dominic Fox" <[log in to unmask]>
> > >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 10:00 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Geoffrey Hill: The Orchards of Syon
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I saw Hill read some of the Orchards of Syon poems before they were
> > >> published. They came across well in that context. I must admit though
> > >> that the sequence doesn't really grab me - all those flame-pelts of
> > >> denuded hawthorn, self-perjuring / arbiters of contrition | revamping
> > >> their perdurance...
> > >>
> > >> Dominic
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Shall we be pure or impure? Today
> > > we shall be very pure. It must always
> > > be possible to contain
> > > impurities in a pure way.
> > > --Tarmo Uustalu and Varmo Vene
> > > --
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> > > Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net --
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> > >
> >
>
>
> --
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