Robin I suppose that is just an off the cuff answer?
Haggesses are they women folk? Perhaps saintesses?
Perhaps VB is in fact an undercover haggis?
Thanks all very cheery sweet haggis P

-----Original Message-----
From: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and
poetics [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Robin Hamilton
Sent: 24 August 2005 13:55
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: snap~patrick

> The plural of Haggis can't be Haggi. Hagges, maybe, or even Haggeres. But
to
> give Haggi as the plural the singular would need to be Haggus. You could
> anglicise (oops!) it, and make it Haggises.

It was, of course, originally "haggus" (from the medieval Latin
HAGGUS, -I -- look it up in that nice dictionary your husband bought you,
Joanna). As the final vowel was pronounced as a scha, in the course of
time, it came to be orthographed (worse things happen -- think "Menzies"
pronounced 'mingus') with the "i" token replacing the "u".

However, as the last syllable of the plural *isn't* a scha but a full vowel,
this escaped whipping.

Which is why the legitimate plural of "haggis" is "haggi".

    A Mad Provoked Thistle.

            (who's off to check out the DOST.)

> joanna
>
> (provoking the thistle)

DSL - SND1 HAGGIS, n. Also obs. forms hag(g)ish; haggies (Sc. 1725 Ramsay
Gentle Shep. ii. i.); haggas(s); hag(a)s (Per. 1737 Ochtertyre Ho. Bk.
(S.H.S.) 67-8); haggise.

1. A dish consisting of the pluck or heart, lungs and liver of a sheep
minced and mixed with suet, oatmeal, onion and seasoning and boiled in a
sheep's maw or stomach. Gen.Sc. Now regarded as a traditionally Scottish
dish, but also popular in England until the beginning of the 18th cent. and
still made in n.Eng. with some variation of the ingredients. Also used fig.
as a term of contempt for a person. Adj. combs. haggis-fed; haggis-headed,
fig. blockheaded, stupid.

    *Kcd. 1699 Black Bk. (Anderson 1843) 94:
    He saw Carnegie himself have in his hand a hot sheep's haggis.
    *Edb. 1715 A. Pennecuik Works (1815) 412:
    Bring haggis-headed William Younger.
    *Sc. 1721 J. Kelly Proverbs 38:
    A Man may love a Haggish that wo'd not have the Bag bladed in his Teeth.
A Man may say, or do, a Thing in his Airs, and Humour, who would not be told
of it again.
    *Edb. 1773 Fergusson Poems (1925) 57:
    Imprimis, then, a haggis fat, Weel tottl'd in a seything pat, Wi' spice
and ingans weel ca'd thro'.
    *Lnk. c.1779 D. Graham Writings (1883) II. 14:
    A piping het haggies, made of the creish of the black boul horn'd Ewe,
boil'd in the meikle bag, mixt with bear meal, onions, spice and mint.
    *Ayr. 1787 Burns To a Haggis viii.:
    Auld Scotland wants nae skinking ware, That jaups in luggies, But, if we
wish her gratefu' prayer, Gie her a Haggis! [Also haggis-fed (Ib. vii.).]
    *Sc. 1818 Scott Rob Roy xxv.:
    Here I stand, that hae slashed as het a haggies as ony o' the twa o' ye,
and thought nae muckle o' my morning's wark when it was dune.
    *Sc. 1820 Scott Monastery xiii.:
    The special tup's-head and trotters, the haggis and the side of mutton,
with which her table was set forth.
    *Slk. 1820 Hogg Winter Ev. Tales II. 186:
    If I "would accompany the minister, and take a share of a haggis wi'
them."
    *Dmf. 1822 Carlyle Early Letters (1886) II. 28:
    The lazy haggises! they must sink when we shall soar.
    *Lth. 1882 "J. Strathesk" Blinkbonny 187:
    Her stews and "hashes," and haggises and white puddings.
    *m.Sc. 1917 J. Buchan Poems 43:
    Haggis and tripe, and puddin's black, and yill.
    *Sc. 1954 Edb. Ev. News (26 Jan.) 7:
    200 people honouring "The Immortal Memory" of Robert Burns on the 195th
anniversary of his birthday enthusiastically disposed of a smaller replica.
The bigger haggis was feted in the traditional manner. . . At the end of the
ode he plunged a long knife into the haggis to prepare portions for the 200
guests.

    2. The stomach (of a man or animal), the paunch; also used attrib. (Edb.
1812 P. Forbes Poems 40).

    *Abd. 1755 R. Forbes Jnl. from London 28:
    The second chiel was a thick, setterel, swown pallach, wi' a great
chuller oner his chocks, like an ill scraped haggis.
    *Lnk. c.1779 D. Graham Writings (1883) II. 210:
    Away then John goes to the amry and lays to the haggies, till his ain
haggies cou'd had nae mair.
    *Bnff. 1851 Trans. Bnff. Field Club (1939) 38:
    I seed them taken up, desected, and their Haggises carried off to be
analised.

    3. A botched job, a mess (Ork. 1956).

    *Ork. 1929 Marw.:
    He'll just mak a haggis o' the job.

    4. Used as an epithet for the second day's auction (sc. of inferior or
mixed quality) at a large sheep sale.

    *Rxb. 1851 Edb. Ev. Courant (25 Sept.):
    The result of yesterday was realised on the sale stance to-day. Although
a few lots of good sheep appeared, it was allowed, being "Haggis" (or second
day), that the dealers who were not supplied would . . . give an impetus to
the market, but in this they were disappointed.

    5. Phrs. and combs.: (1) haggis-bag, the sheep's stomach in which a
haggis is cooked (Sc. 1825 Jam.; Rxb. 1956); also used fig. = a windbag, a
piece of empty nonsense; ?(2) haggies kail, the water or broth in which a
haggis has been boiled; (3) haggis royal, a rich kind of haggis (Sc. 1837 M.
Dods Manual 304); (4) sweet haggis, see quot.; (5) white haggis, id.

    (1) *Sc. 1787 S. MacIver Cookery 71:
    Make the haggies-bag perfectly clean. . . . Put all the haggies-meat
into the bag.
    *Sc. 1819 Blackwood's Mag. (Sept.) 676:
    It is more like an empty haggis-bag than any thing else.
    *Dmb. 1846 W. Cross Disruption v.:
    "Principles! haggis bags!" exclaimed the lady.
    *Sc. 1870 R. Chambers Pop. Rhymes 42:
    And he ate up a' the haggis bag, and his name was Aiken Drum.
    (2) *Sc. 1787 W. Taylor Poems 52:
    Wi' puddin broe or haggies' kail. Or something maks a battin meal.
    (4) *Kcb.10 1956:

    There was also a white or sweet haggis, of suet, oatmeal, currants,
etc., cooked and sliced when cold and hard.
    [O.Sc. haggeis, haggies from c.1500, E.M.E. haggas, hagges, haggice,
Mid.Eng. hagas, hageys, hagese, c.1420, id. Orig. uncertain, but prob. a
deriv. of Hag. v.1, n.1, to chop.] .