Judy:
RE: ..."I honor your thoughts simply because they are your thoughts"...
Your reply, verbose. Your statement, false.
There is "no heat" in my response. I don't wordsmith common sense
out of common sense, Judy.
There is no challenge here. Just this: a request to consider and respect the
members
of this list.
Thanks... Deborah
>Hi, Deborah,
>
>I'm surprised at the heat in your response! Let me think about your points
>so that I've a gathered opinion to offer you.
>
>It may be best, first, to tell you what you've said that I agree with.
>
>I agree that petc has exceptional and decent people as Listers who keep
>others informed of events, publications, their work and other endeavors.
>
>What I can't agree with simply because I'm ignorant of it is your point
>about this not being a chat room. I don't know what a chat room is. It
>sounds friendly enough, though, so I don't understand what's bad about it.
>It seems to me, for example, that I'm chatting right now, which seems
>pretty harmless.
>
>Two thoughts come to my mind, Deborah. First, whenever you see my name pop
>up on the "From" line you can just press the "Delete" button. I do that,
>and have said so, regularly, usually when I'm bored by what I've noticed
>before and therefore expect again from a particular Lister or thread. That
>way you and others wouldn't have to waste money. (I have cable, so I may
>not be understanding your point about money here.)
>
>I'd also want you to think about---and think DEEPLY about---the reasonable
>urge to get rid of a person or a person's words as a universal and timeless
>reaction to that which makes people profoundly uncomfortable. I'm not,
>believe me, glibly dismissing your "discomfort" with some of what I write.
>We two are just two examples in an all-humanity framework.
>
>The disparate and strange expressions which surface from people who feel
>free enough in a particular environment to express themselves has an import
>far beyond the anger or disgust it may produce.
>
>Individuals' expressions may bring other things to other readers. They may
>cause a healing, an immediate self-awareness, a transformation in attitude
>and mission, a seeing into the soul of the other person that gives birth to
>compassion. All of that can be the result of a message which to others is
>obnoxious and even hate-filled.
>
>Permitting---no, welcoming and embracing---people's unfettered expressions,
>may be nothing less than NOBLE in its compassion. What more essential
>ground could there be than the acceptance of individuals no matter how odd
>they may seem, how off-center their musings, how pain-producing their
>views?
>
>Truly, the acceptance of individual expression is, at times, as difficult
>to manage as LOVE---the action from which acceptance springs.
>
>Last night I happened upon a five-years ago bunch of petc posts. I was
>dumbfounded by the wild, compelling, free-spirited, sometimes obnoxious,
>whole, angry, ecstatic, unbounded messages! At first I had to check to see
>if it was, indeed, the POETRYETC posts that I was reading. And it was.
>
>Deborah, in addition to my feeling that I choose to continue whatever it is
>I'm trying to express in my messages that you don't like, as well as those
>you do like, I'm telling you that making a person feel that it is better to
>stifle herself, for the sake of others, may lead even more people to drop
>off the List, as they apparently have. What can be the good in such an
>atmosphere?
>
>When you weigh the points I'm making with your own desire to limit some of
>my messages, do you still want me to drop my various personae? Do you
>truly think that it is the best action for you, me, and others?
>
>Let me know. You surely know by now that I honor your thoughts simply
>because they are your thoughts!
>
>Judy
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "deborah russell"
><[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 12:24 PM
>Subject: Re: me, May B
>
>
>>Judy,
>>
>>i've enjoyed this list for quite a while and have taken in a wealth of
>>information - there are exceptional people here. this isn't a chat room -
>>the internet offers thousands of those.
>>i like the environment on poetryetc. because it is the most decent
>>exchange of information i have found concerning poetry, since 1998 - i
>>like the writers/members because of their willingness to keep members
>>informed of events, publications, their work and latest endeavors. it
>>isn't a chat room, and frankly your exchanges are not suited for this
>>list. everytime you post nonsense it goes out to all of the members, some
>>of these members are on dial up which costs them money to read your
>>nothings. i think the concept here is to show respect. why don't you drop
>>the nonsense and move on to a different topic?
>>
>>
>>deborah
>>
>>>From: judy prince <[log in to unmask]>
>>>Reply-To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry
>>>and poetics <[log in to unmask]>
>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>Subject: me, May B
>>>Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 10:58:05 -0400
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>>>
>>>This is May B speaking:
>>>
>>>Excuse me, but I'm beginning to feel a little upset. I know I may not
>>>have the right to say anything negative towards the people on this List,
>>>but I'm beginning to feel that I have been offended by two of them, and
>>>because they seem entirely unaware of their offenses, I guess it is up to
>>>me to tell them.
>>>
>>>Really, all I did was a little favor for my friend OmniPotentata by
>>>conveying her thoughts to Mr. McManus who is her friend. And then,
>>>suddenly, he attacks me, calling me a "harridan," and then Quadruple
>>>Agent Prince attacks me along with Mr. McManus for being Adolescent which
>>>I actually almost am, because I am 19 years old. But I think Agent
>>>Prince was trying to say that Mr. McManus and I were behaving as if we
>>>had no respect for our elders, which I definitely do!
>>>
>>>I was taught to be nice and polite, and hadn't even thought about saying
>>>mean things. My mother always said, "Sweetheart, you can get more flies
>>>with honey than with vinegar." I always thought she was right, until
>>>now.
>>>
>>>I thought I was just politely telling Mr. McManus what OmniP had asked me
>>>to tell him, and I even extended the arm of friendship to him for my
>>>friend OmniP's sake and at her request.
>>>
>>>If I didn't think you people were nice poets, I would think that at least
>>>two of you were vipers. Oh dear, I have spoken so forcefully! But I
>>>think that my mother would understand. She would know my heart, and she
>>>would realize that I must stand up for my own rights as a human being in
>>>this unsettling world that I think today is not as nice as I thought it
>>>was.
>>>
>>>I am trying to still be a friend to Mr. McManus and even Agent Prince,
>>>but I've been hurt in my heart by their harsh words, and I am a bit weak
>>>from trembling with I guess rage and not knowing what to do about it.
>>>
>>>May B
>>
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