So we're back to the old question then, are we -- which is the metaphor for
which. One of the lasting joys of English for me, though I suppose in this
case French comes into it too.
best j
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Cudmore" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: snapshot wednesday15th june 05
> For good measure, in OED's etymology I particularly liked the Italian
> 'paper
> coffin'.
>
> P
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to
>> poetry and poetics [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>> Behalf Of Goodland, Giles
>> Sent: 15 June 2005 13:20
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: snapshot wednesday15th june 05
>>
>> Before Napoleon! Here is Cotgrave (1611):
>>
>>
>> the cornet of paper wherein grocers put the parcels they
>> retaile; also, a Cartouch, or full charge, for a pistoll put
>> vp within a little paper to be the readier for vse, etc
>>
>> it is OED's first sense. The Egyptian sense is not recorded
>> until 1830.
>>
>> Ultimately from Latin carta, charta.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to
>> poetry and poetics [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>> Behalf Of Mark Weiss
>> Sent: 15 June 2005 13:00
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: snapshot wednesday15th june 05
>>
>> Not a scroll, but the oval that surrounds the names of
>> pharaohs and gods in hieroglyphic inscriptions. So-called
>> because it presumably reminded Napoleon's scientists of a
>> cartridge. The cartouche was the key to Champollion's
>> deciphering of hieroglyphics. He knew what the proclamation
>> on the Rosetta Stone meant, but he didn't know which
>> hieroglyphs corresponded to which Greek words, until he
>> intuited that the hieroglyphs inside the cartouche were the
>> pharaoh's names and epithets, and that many of the
>> hieroglyphs represented phonemes. He had already guessed that
>> Coptic, still spoken in Egypt, was a modern form of the
>> ancient language.
>>
>> To simplify a very complex story.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> At 10:43 AM 6/15/2005 +0100, you wrote:
>> > Cartouche is itself a pun: an Egyptian scroll, and the
>> cartridge for
>> >an old rifle shot.
>> >
>> >(Sorry to have to reveal its meaning), but H.D. uses I to
>> good effect:
>> >
>> >
>> > Thoth, Hermes, the stylus,
>> >the palette, the pen, the quill endure,
>> >
>> >though our books are a floor
>> >of smouldering ash under our feet;
>> >
>> >though the burning of the books remains the most perverse gesture
>> >
>> >and the meanest
>> >of man's mean nature,
>> >
>> >yet give us, they still cry,
>> >give us books,
>> >
>> >folio, manuscript, old parchment
>> >will do for cartridge cases;
>> >
>> >irony is bitter truth
>> >wrapped up in a little joke,
>> >
>> >and Hatshepsut's name is still circled
>> >with what they call the cartouche.
>> >
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to
>> poetry and
>> >poetics [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dominic Fox
>> >Sent: 15 June 2005 10:34
>> >To: [log in to unmask]
>> >Subject: Re: snapshot wednesday15th june 05
>> >
>> >"...at which point, we are to understand, the defendant lost his
>> >footing on the floor made slippery by the spilled beverage and,
>> >reaching out to steady himself, accidentally placed his hand
>> upon the
>> >lady's - ahem - *cartouche*?"
>> >
>> >e. e. cummings does a good bilingual double-entendre in "My Love":
>> >
>> >thy thighs are white horses yoked to a chariot
>> > of kings
>> >they are the striking of a good minstrel between them is always a
>> >pleasant song
>> >
>> >- "pleasant song" being, of course, "bel canto".
>> >
>> >Dominic
>>
>
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