This seems to me a strange idea of Gombrich's, that only links directly, and
presumably deliberately, handed down from master to pupil actually count.
Surely in any art a practitioner is 'permitted' to learn by studying earlier
work off his or her own bat? If I study and learn from the Beowulf poet, or
Chaucer, for example, is anyone going to say that that doesn't count because
he hasn't himself said directly to me: 'Look, try it like this'? Or come to
that any contemporary poet who hasn't actually taught me or at the very
least written a how-to book.
Now I suspect that at least part of Gombrich's point is that people didn't
know about the cave paintings or the art of the North American Indians (did
they know about the Egyptians?), so that there's no way the apostolic
succession as it were could remain unbroken; but I don't see why that should
invalidate that tributary's rejoining the main stream later, to mix
metaphors. Actually, reproductions of the cave paintings seem to me
astonishingly 'modern' in style, with a grasp of perspective which I'd have
thought wasn't present in the art of the Nile valley. I'd be more likely to
want to ask what had fractured the line of succession between the cave
paintings and the Egyptians of 5000 years ago.
Somebody is going to take me up on this and argue against me I'm quite sure,
which will be interesting!
best joanna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Barbour" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 3:56 PM
Subject: Re: ancient technique
I like better the ideas promulgated (by whom? Pound? etc) that the idea
of 'progress' in the arts misses the point; those cave paintings are as
stunning as ay later works from various times. They stand together & we
stand together in awe before them.
Doug
On 11-Jan-05, at 1:32 AM, Mark Weiss wrote:
> Gombrich seems to be stating a truism. The story, not of art, but of
> art as
> a continuous effort, depends on unbroken evidence of continuity to be
> a story.
>
> Mark
>
>
> At 06:23 PM 1/10/2005, you wrote:
>> "The great art historian Ernst Gombrich was prompted to observe that:
>>
>> . the story of art as a continuous effort does not begin in the caves
>> of
>> southern France or among the North American Indians. there is no
>> direct
>> tradition which links these strange beginnings with our own days. But
>> there
>> is a direct tradition, handed down from master to pupil . . . which
>> links
>> the art of our own days with the art of the Nile valley some 5000
>> years ago.
>> "
>>
>> (E.H. Gombrich, _The Story of Art_, 16th edition, London: Phaidon
>> Press,
>> 1995, quoted in Paul Calter, _Squaring the Circle: Geometry in Art &
>> Architecture_, California: Key College Publishing, forthcoming (2003);
>> online at
>> http://www.dartmouth.edu/~matc/math5.geometry/unit1/INTRO.html)
>>
>> I don't agree with Gombrich -- absence of an evidence trail doesn't
>> mean the
>> trail was never there.
>>
>> :P
>>
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to
>> > poetry and poetics [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>> > Behalf Of Anny Ballardini
>> > Sent: 10 January 2005 22:30
>> > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > Subject: Re: ancient technique
>> >
>> > Hopefully I didn't scare anybody, or was not too abstruse.
>> > The writer gives for granted that _painting_ is an ancient
>> > technique (tecnica antica, this is what he says), and is
>> > talking of two performances that took place at a gallery at
>> > the opening and closing of the exhibit. I was quite surprised
>> > that painting could be considered _ancient_, and was asking
>> > the List if you agree or disagree.
>> >
>> > Painting takes time, a longest time, and a lot of practice to
>> > get to passable works. But this does not mean that painting
>> > is not used any more, even if at galleries it is much easier
>> > to find : installations, performances as in this case,
>> > videos, photographs, collages, and what else. You often have
>> > to go to a Museum to find some wonderful paintings.
>> >
>> > So it is true, that painting is an ancient technique. I just
>> > didn't realize it until now.
>> >
>> > ________________________________________
>> >
>> > ___or even an ancient technique like painting___
>> >
>> > I am translating, and here I am writing the above words.
>> > Which evidently struck me. Who dis/agrees with this?
>> > The topic pivots on performance, or contemporary arts in general.
>> >
>> >
>> > Anny Ballardini
>> > http://annyballardini.blogspot.com
>> > http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome
>> > The aim of the poet is to awaken emotions in the soul, not to
>> > gather admirers.
>> > Stalker, Andrei Tarkovsky
>> >
>> >
>
>
Douglas Barbour
Department of English
University of Alberta
Edmonton Alberta T6G 2E5 Canada
(780) 436 3320
http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/dbhome.htm
The poet is ecstatic, having dreamt of this visit for weeks.
He takes Erato’s face, dribbling and wild, between his hands
and kisses her gently as if she were a runaway teenager.
Diana Hartog
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