JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for POETRYETC Archives


POETRYETC Archives

POETRYETC Archives


POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

POETRYETC Home

POETRYETC Home

POETRYETC  2005

POETRYETC 2005

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Larkin and bad poets

From:

Rebecca Seiferle <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 18 Jan 2005 00:47:43 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (112 lines)

Well, it's not a silly question, but does lend as Andrew notes to revealing
answers, so this is just my two cents.

Yes, I have sometimes worried about this a great deal, and I say sometimes
in the sense that there have been several periods in my life, for extended
periods of time, when I have wondered this.

My experience has been different
than Andrew's for when young I was always trying to be 'normal' to begin where
it seemed to me most ordinary people began and I felt it as a great lack in
myself.

On the other hand, I do understand what he means
about having an ordinary life as a mask to allow for one's creative work, since
I've done that for periods of considerable time, but I don't believe that one
anymore. It is a _productive_ view, a combining of comfort in one's
existence with a sense that it leads to productive work, worthwhile work. And
that's ok, to a point, but it's just the issue of success or work like selling shoes
or making cabinets.

The whole point in life is to live, and as one is, whatever that is. And while
various masks or identities or circumstances may be beneficial, there's often a
point where the mask didn't fit the living face anymore: when the ordinary
reality has to change in some significant way or even shattered to allow those
inner realities to live. Whenever that happened, and it's only been several
periods of time in my life, that those pressures within and without intersected, I
would start wondering if I were normal? And part of that was the effects, the
exhaustion, the disorientations, but most of it was that fixed identity looking
upon all those other living realities and wanting them to remain marginal,
contained, and since they couldn't be the way they had been, and so judging
them, by turning to the question of judgement and assessment, am I normal?

It's just
impossible I think for one's 'self' or 'soul' whatever that thing within is to live on
the margins of one's existence, to be contained within identity, and to be let out
for the occasional romp in life, whether it's a suspension of identity in drinking
or in writing or dancing in the dark.  It just basically wants to live, and for
whatever reason, childhood, terrifying family lives, cultural upbringing, many
souls are not allowed ground to stand on or air to breathe, they negotiate for
small freedoms, treats, rewards, they contain themselves within relationships
and hush to sleep their own burning thoughts or hush their own perceptions
that trembling and transient as they are question and see the realities one lives
with and wishes to be blind to, or forget, or minimize, they learn to mirror the
aggressiveness they face, they take on menial jobs to learn how the world
works, they are plants eking out existence on a few drops of water a day, they
are often too 'good' and accomodating, they are allowed the small thrills of
various small thefts whose giddiness evaporates, they work and work, they take
on the masks of various identities that others want from them and they become
more phantom like and ghostly silences staring into space. This is really
normalizing the abnormal.

It's not so much that the soul or self is abnormal but
that it's been convinced it is, and the judge is in one's own head,  and souls can
lie dormant for years, being comfortable in their cages, happy for the few days
out, but they never die and always come back, often in later life where they've
become more unruly, disorienting, adolescent for lack of sunlight and exercise
and air. So there are times when this happens, when whatever lives in oneself
won't lie quietly anymore and so begins to exert these various pressures and
one feels 'mad' or wonders at one's normality.

Afterwards, when these other realities were more integrated,  the question
wouldn't even come up.  Also there's I think a kind of 'normalizing of
the abnormal' that occurs, accepting various situations, treatments, lacks,
'normal' and excusing them, justifying them, as when one grows up in a
terrifyingly abnormal house and must for survival purposes somehow accept it
or work within it, finding a sort of survival labyrinth through and out.  As a
result one's own normality, these various realities that are vital and fine being
who one is, can come to seem 'abnormal,' being banished or marginalized or
contained from an early age, though they never die, and in later life come back,
still wanting to live, and seeming 'abnormal' and making one wonder if one is
normal?  Something like this by the Jungian psychologist Estes

Trying to be good, orderly, and compliant in the face of inner or outer peril or in
order to hide a critical psychic or real life situation de-souls a woman. It cuts
her off from knowing; it cuts her from her ability to act. Like the child in the tale
who does not object out loud, who tries to hide her starvation, who tries to
make it seem as though nothing is burning in her, modern women have the
same disorder, normalizing the abnormal. So then weirdly to be normal, to
accept one's own living realities, is to accept the abnormal into oneself.

 This happens to men too, of course. But I guess my basic point is that I view
asking this question about whether I'm 'normal' now as an indication that my
identity doesn't want to accept or come to terms with various realities that are
alive in me and so prefers to condemn or judge them or dismiss them as 'crazy'
or turn it into an issue of who am I anyway? am I normal? Just a big runaround
to avoid them, for to me now the real question is what reality so wants to live in
me that I'd rather think about whether I'm normal or not in order to avoid it? For
most of the time whatever's clamouring at the door that one would rather go
crazy or turn to ruminations of am I normal? than face are not so bad, just living
bits of soul, nothing so terrible but thinking makes it so, and thinking can
change, and often must.

Best,

Rebecca
---- Original message ----
>Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 14:37:06 +1100
>From: Alison Croggon <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Larkin and bad poets
>To: [log in to unmask]
>
>Silly question maybe, but does anyone here worry if they're "normal"?
>
>A
>
>
>Alison Croggon
>
>Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com
>Editor, Masthead:  http://masthead.net.au
>Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

May 2024
April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager