Brothers kiss too, don't they? Or not in the US, like real men don't eat
quiche?
You remember, of course, what W.C.Fields wanted on his gravestone - but
was foiled, so I believe (or is it an urban legend?) by his surviving
though separated wife & children:
"On the whole, I'd rather be in Philadelphia."
I wrote a rather unsuccessful villanenelle with this as one of the key
lines.
Most of the long post was not mine but Leon Stump's, of course; I'm sure
that in the interests of brotherly love but also of advertising his
webpage he'd be thrilled to know some of it is on petc.
mj
Rebecca Seiferle wrote:
> /Phileo /is "warmer"
>
>
>>than /agapao/ in that /phileo /is more often associated with
>>"friendship," as can be seen from the facts that the verb can mean "to
>>kiss;" that one noun derived from it, /philema, /means "a kiss;" that
>>another noun, /philos, /means "friend;" and that another, /philia,/
>>usually means "friendship."
>>
>>
>
>
>I read your long post again, Martin, and this is not so translatable in cultural
>terms, for I'm thinking of "Philadelphia" generally translated as 'City of Brotherly
>Love" in textbooks, history books, etc, a different view of American history if it
>were "City of friends kissing," enough to put another crack in the Liberty Bell,
>now undoubtedly I will laugh to myself at least once the next time I visit
>Philadelphia,
>
>Best,
>
>Rebecca
>
>---- Original message ----
>
>
>>Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 00:47:04 +0100
>>From: MJ Walker <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Names of the god, was Re: Mark, two translations/same Cavafy
>>
>>
>poem
>
>
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>The following is from
>>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/4610/lifelines/love3.html -
>>please note that agape is caritas in Latin, more or less; caritas is not
>>the 3rd term completing the 2 Greek terms. We're talking serious
>>theology here. The author, Leon Stump (who later has a fascinating
>>discussion of the Hebrew words & concepts for love), shows in the
>>course of the article that the agape word did not originally have the
>>definite meaning later associated with it by Christians.
>>
>>
>>>>The /Theological Dictionary of the New Testament /("Kittel's") says
>>>>
>>>>
>>regarding classical Greek:
>>
>> In the word /agapan /("to love") the Greek finds nothing of the
>> power or magic of /eran/ and little of the warmth of
>> /philein....//Agapan/ must often be translated "to show love"; it is
>> a giving, active love on the other's behalf....Yet the meaning of
>> /agapan/ is still imprecise, and its individuation still tentative,
>> as may be seen when it is conjoined or interchanged with /eran/ or
>> /philein./ For in these cases /agapan/ is often a mere synonym which
>> is set alongside the other two for the sake of emphasis or stylistic
>> variation. (/Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, /ed. by
>> Gerhard Kittel, translated and edited by Geoffrey W. Bromiley;
>> Eerdmans: Grand Rapids,MI; 1964, Vol.1, pp.36,37)
>>
>>... despite the fact that /agapao,/ /phileo, /and /erao/ overlap in
>>their range of meaning or may even at times be used as synonyms, there
>>remains at least some distinction between them. /Phileo /is "warmer"
>>than /agapao/ in that /phileo /is more often associated with
>>"friendship," as can be seen from the facts that the verb can mean "to
>>kiss;" that one noun derived from it, /philema, /means "a kiss;" that
>>another noun, /philos, /means "friend;" and that another, /philia,/
>>usually means "friendship." /Agape/ often has the sense of "to prefer,"
>>indicating more of choice than emotion, but it would be a great mistake
>>to assume by this that /agape /is an emotionless term, without
>>affection. It is significant, however, that even though /phileo /is used
>>on occasion in the NT of God's love for His Son or His children, it is
>>never used for His loving sinners. Jesus was derogatorily referred to as
>>"the friend (/philos/) of sinners" by His enemies (Mt.11:19; Lk.7:34),
>>but in the same statement they also slanderously called Him "a glutton
>>and a winebibber." Jesus was not "friends" with the sinners in the
>>ordinary sense of the word; He met with them only for the purpose of
>>calling them to repentance (Mt.9:13; Mk.2:17; Lk.5:32). We may compare
>>James 4:4-
>>
>> You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship (/philia/)
>> with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a
>> friend (/philos/) of the world becomes an enemy of God.
>>
>>We may also see the parallel to this in 1 John 2:15-
>>
>> Do not love (/agapate/) the world or anything in the world. If
>> anyone loves (/agapa/) the world, the love (/agape/) of the Father
>> is not in him.
>>
>>Since James and John seem to be saying the very same thing in different
>>words, these two verses show again the closeness of meaning of /phileo/
>>and /agapao/ and their related words...<< etc
>>Difficult to condense all this stuff...Hope it helps
>>mj
>>
>>
>>
>>Robin Hamilton wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: "Christopher Walker" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>whereas *caritas* is what's
>>>>immanent in behaviour (Cf Faith and Hope) or the state out of which it
>>>>comes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>THAT'S the third term I was trying to wrap my tired brain around -- in
>>>Latin, eros, agape, and caritas.
>>>
>>> "caritas" is social love.
>>>
>>>Thanks, Christopher.
>>>
>>>Charity.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
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