Hi, Deborah,

I'm surprised at the heat in your response!  Let me think about your points 
so that I've a gathered opinion to offer you.

It may be best, first, to tell you what you've said that I agree with.

I agree that petc has exceptional and decent people as Listers who keep 
others informed of events, publications, their work and other endeavors.

What I can't agree with simply because I'm ignorant of it is your point 
about this not being a chat room.  I don't know what a chat room is.  It 
sounds friendly enough, though, so I don't understand what's bad about it. 
It seems to me, for example, that I'm chatting right now, which seems pretty 
harmless.

Two thoughts come to my mind, Deborah.  First, whenever you see my name pop 
up on the "From" line you can just press the "Delete" button.  I do that, 
and have said so, regularly, usually when I'm bored by what I've noticed 
before and therefore expect again from a particular Lister or thread.  That 
way you and others wouldn't have to waste money.  (I have cable, so I may 
not be understanding your point about money here.)

I'd also want you to think about---and think DEEPLY about---the reasonable 
urge to get rid of a person or a person's words as a universal and timeless 
reaction to that which makes people profoundly uncomfortable.  I'm not, 
believe me, glibly dismissing your "discomfort" with some of what I write. 
We two are just two examples in an all-humanity framework.

The disparate and strange expressions which surface from people who feel 
free enough in a particular environment to express themselves has an import 
far beyond the anger or disgust it may produce.

Individuals' expressions may bring other things to other readers.  They may 
cause a healing, an immediate self-awareness, a transformation in attitude 
and mission, a seeing into the soul of the other person that gives birth to 
compassion.  All of that can be the result of a message which to others is 
obnoxious and even hate-filled.

Permitting---no, welcoming and embracing---people's unfettered expressions, 
may be nothing less than NOBLE in its compassion.  What more essential 
ground could there be than the acceptance of individuals no matter how odd 
they may seem, how off-center their musings, how pain-producing their views?

Truly, the acceptance of individual expression is, at times, as difficult to 
manage as LOVE---the action from which acceptance springs.

Last night I happened upon a five-years ago bunch of petc posts.  I was 
dumbfounded by the wild, compelling, free-spirited, sometimes obnoxious, 
whole, angry, ecstatic, unbounded messages!  At first I had to check to see 
if it was, indeed, the POETRYETC posts that I was reading.  And it was.

Deborah, in addition to my feeling that I choose to continue whatever it is 
I'm trying to express in my messages that you don't like, as well as those 
you do like, I'm telling you that making a person feel that it is better to 
stifle herself, for the sake of others, may lead even more people to drop 
off the List, as they apparently have.  What can be the good in such an 
atmosphere?

When you weigh the points I'm making with your own desire to limit some of 
my messages, do you still want me to drop my various personae?  Do you truly 
think that it is the best action for you, me, and others?

Let me know.  You surely know by now that I honor your thoughts simply 
because they are your thoughts!

Judy


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "deborah russell" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: me, May B


> Judy,
>
> i've enjoyed this list for quite a while and have taken in a wealth of 
> information - there are exceptional people here. this isn't a chat room - 
> the internet offers thousands of those.
> i like the environment on poetryetc. because it is the most decent 
> exchange of information i have found concerning poetry, since 1998 - i 
> like the writers/members because of their willingness to keep members 
> informed of events, publications, their work and latest endeavors. it 
> isn't a chat room, and frankly your exchanges are not suited for this 
> list. everytime you post nonsense it goes out to all of the members, some 
> of these members are on dial up which costs them money to read your 
> nothings. i think the concept here is to show respect. why don't you drop 
> the nonsense and move on to a different topic?
>
>
> deborah
>
>>From: judy prince <[log in to unmask]>
>>Reply-To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and 
>>poetics <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: me, May B
>>Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 10:58:05 -0400
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>>
>>This is May B speaking:
>>
>>Excuse me, but I'm beginning to feel a little upset.  I know I may not 
>>have the right to say anything negative towards the people on this List, 
>>but I'm beginning to feel that I have been offended by two of them, and 
>>because they seem entirely unaware of their offenses, I guess it is up to 
>>me to tell them.
>>
>>Really, all I did was a little favor for my friend OmniPotentata by 
>>conveying her thoughts to Mr. McManus who is her friend.  And then, 
>>suddenly, he attacks me, calling me a "harridan," and then Quadruple Agent 
>>Prince attacks me along with Mr. McManus for being Adolescent which I 
>>actually almost am, because I am 19 years old.  But I think Agent Prince 
>>was trying to say that Mr. McManus and I were behaving as if we had no 
>>respect for our elders, which I definitely do!
>>
>>I was taught to be nice and polite, and hadn't even thought about saying 
>>mean things.  My mother always said, "Sweetheart, you can get more flies 
>>with honey than with vinegar."  I always thought she was right, until now.
>>
>>I thought I was just politely telling Mr. McManus what OmniP had asked me 
>>to tell him, and I even extended the arm of friendship to him for my 
>>friend OmniP's sake and at her request.
>>
>>If I didn't think you people were nice poets, I would think that at least 
>>two of you were vipers.  Oh dear, I have spoken so forcefully!  But I 
>>think that my mother would understand.  She would know my heart, and she 
>>would realize that I must stand up for my own rights as a human being in 
>>this unsettling world that I think today is not as nice as I thought it 
>>was.
>>
>>I am trying to still be a friend to Mr. McManus and even Agent Prince, but 
>>I've been hurt in my heart by their harsh words, and I am a bit weak from 
>>trembling with I guess rage and not knowing what to do about it.
>>
>>May B
>