Dear all 
Fascinating discussion, thanks for all the information raised 
in this regard. The range of terms used in different parts of 
the world, perhaps shows different aspects of the role a 
midwife in various cultures. You may be interested to know in 
traditional practice of midwifery in Iran, the lay term to 
describe midwife, was "Ghabeleh" which means a woman with a 
special capability or breifly a "A capable woman".
Hora
---- Original message ----
>Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 14:22:29 +0100
>From: Ans Luyben <[log in to unmask]>  
>Subject: Re: The midwife has many names and what is wrong 
with obstetrix?  
>To: [log in to unmask]
>
>Dear Celine, Jenny and Ellen,
>
>Thanks for your thoughts; they are truly inspiring. I talked 
with somebody
>else, and I really like the idea of directing at an own body 
of knowledge.
>Celine, maybe we'll get back to you as this journey is 
starting in the
>French speaking part, but the decision will affect the 
Germanspeaking area.
>I do agree with Ellen on obstetrics ( if we solely look at 
the word, not its
>current meaning). Having Dutch roots, I certainly do not 
agree that
>gynaecologists do "obstetrics", as this got nothing to do 
with the illness
>orientation that medicine has.
>So according to that view, an obstetrician is a king without 
a kingdom. But
>how can you change cultural traditions ??
>
>Please don't stop the discussion...
>
>Ans
>
>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>Van: A forum for discussion on midwifery and reproductive 
health
>research. [mailto:[log in to unmask]]Namens 
Ellen Blix
>Verzonden: Samstag, 17. Dezember 2005 21:55
>Aan: [log in to unmask]
>Onderwerp: The midwife has many names and what is wrong with 
obstetrix?
>
>
>Dear Celine and all others
>Sage-femme in French and "jordmor" in Norwegian and 
Danish. "Jord" is earth
>and "mor" is mother, it means the person lifting the newborn 
baby from the
>earth (the floor). Another term for giging birth was "laying 
on the earth"
>In the good old days the midwife had the responsibility of 
bringing the
>newborn from to the (presumed) father, he would take the 
baby in his lap,
>look at it and accept it or not. If he accepted the baby the 
midwife would
>bring it back to the mother, if not she would arrange that 
someone took the
>baby outside and left it there for the wolfs and ravens. In 
German the
>midwife is called Hebamme, from "heben" which means lifting 
up, so it
>probably has the same meaning as the Norwegian/Danish term. 
The Swedish term
>is "barnmorska" which comes from "badermoderche" which again 
means the woman
>who is giving the newborn its first bath. Another old Nordic 
term for
>midwife is ljosmodir, it is used in Iceland. "Ljos" means 
light and "modir"
>mother. I guess it points to the term "ljosbarn" (barn= 
child), it means the
>newborn baby. Another Nordic term for women helping with 
childbirth is
>"nærkone", it means a (married) woman being close. The 
latin "obstetrix"
>means "who is standing close to", and "obstetrices" were the 
Roman midwives.
>
>Anyway, MARRY CHRISTMAS to all of you!
>
>Greetings from Ellen (jordmor)
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Céline lemay" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 8:05 PM
>Subject: Re: Bachelors of what ?
>
>
>> Dear Ans,
>>
>> In Québec (Canada), we finaly chose "Bachelor in practice 
of midwifery".
>> ( Baccalauréat en pratique sage-femme), in 1999. I like 
this contribution
>> to the visibility of the fact that midwifery is 
essentially a practice. To
>> be exact, I found that it is a "praxis", but forget it. I 
just like to be
>> inspired silently by that.
>> Science is a trap to fall in the medical model of practice 
quite fast.
>> Art doesn't look too serious, even if midwifery is a real 
art.
>> For us, bacc is a 4 years of formation and a master degree 
would mean the
>> addition of 2 more years. How can we justified to have a 4-
6 years of
>> training to be able to deal with healthy clients and 
physiological process
>> most of the time? Only the medical model would justify 
that: just about
>> the same as medicine. Midwives are not a kind of doctor or 
a kind of
>> nurse. It is a distinct profession.
>> I think that I am doing midwifery, not obstetrics. 
Obstétrics is but a
>> small part of my job. It would be too reductionist and 
confusing to use a
>> name that means "obstetrics". The name will strongly color 
the identity
>> and the orientations of the program.
>> I don't know the german language but I am proud to 
use "sage-femme", wise
>> woman. We need so much to be connected to wisdom. Sage-
femme is different
>> than "accoucheur" which is only related to childbirth.
>>
>> those are my thoughts,
>>
>> Céline Lemay
>>
>> Original Message -----
>> From: "Ans Luyben" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 6:51 AM
>> Subject: Bachelors of what ?
>>
>>
>> Dear colleagues,
>>
>> As due to Bologna most midwifery programmes in Switzerland 
are changing to
>> Bachelors and Masters programmes we experienced having 
difficulties with
>> deciding for an appropriate title.
>> The possibilities are:
>> - Bachelors of Science in...............
>> - Bachelors of Arts in.................
>> - Bachelors of ...................... ( equivalent of 
midwifery)
>> Can anybody provide me arguments for one of them and share 
their thoughts
>> with me ????
>>
>> Important considerations to me are:
>> - Equivalent to midwifery programmes in other countries
>> - The Novice to Expert model of Benner's, which has 
implications for
>> further
>> study: masters etc.
>> - having an own body of knowledge
>> - coherence to the masters' titles; several midwives 
preferred a master of
>> science
>>
>> One of the issues certainly is that we in the 
germanspeaking and french
>> speaking countries have a professional title, but are 
lacking a defined
>> professional area ( such as "midwifery"). It should 
be "geburtshilfe" (
>> obstetrics), but that was taken over by the medical 
profession in earlier
>> days, as in most other countries.
>>
>> Thanks !!
>> ¨
>> Ans Luyben
>>
>> Ans Luyben
>> Lagerstrasse 9
>> 7000 Chur
>> E- mail: [log in to unmask]
>> Tel.p. 081- 2840810
>> Tel.w. 081- 3540951
Dr Hora Soltani
Lead Research Midwife
Derby City General Hospital
Tel: 01332 785134

***************************************************************************
This e-mail is confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended
recipient please accept our apologies; please do not disclose, copy or
distribute information in this e-mail or take any action in reliance on its
contents: to do so is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. Please
inform us that this message has gone astray before deleting it. Thank you
for your co-operation.
***************************************************************************