we have had women decline scans as they feel it is unnecessary and whilst there may be some mumbling amongst some staff both medical and midwifery about "these women" they would not become high risk and certainly not be "refused" a home birth -what happens to choice-but then again our figures show we dont exactly embrace home birth
and I have comment from "these women" that they are made to feel they are not fitting into the system
strong supervision support for both midwives and the women is necessary and keep chipping at the system
Elaine
-----Original Message-----
From: A forum for discussion on midwifery and reproductive health
research. [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Jane
sandall
Sent: 18 November 2005 16:12
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: The price women pay who refuse routine scans?
Dear listmembers
Has anyone come across the following practice?
If a woman refuses a routine dating or anomaly scan, she is labelled highr
isk and 'not allowed' to have a home birth or give birth in a midwife ledu
nit birth. I am wondering how common this practice is, and whether there is
any evidence to justify it?
bw
Jane Sandall
Dr Jane Sandall
Professor of Midwifery and Women's Health
Midwifery and Women's Health Research Group,
Health and Social Care Research Division
King's College, Waterloo Bridge Wing,
150 Stamford Street,
London, SE1 9NH
Tel: 020 7848 3605
Fax: 020 7848 3764
e-mail:[log in to unmask]
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/nursing/research/women.html
----- Original Message -----
From: <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 12:52 PM
Subject: [ukmidwifery] Digest Number 3174
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
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> --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
>
> There are 9 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: human milk donors
> From: Cerys Byrne <[log in to unmask]>
> 2. Re: Nurses sell services back to NHS
> From: [log in to unmask]
> 3. Re: Re: Prolonged second stage
> From: Deborah <[log in to unmask]>
> 4. Re: Nurses sell services back to NHS
> From: Deborah <[log in to unmask]>
> 5. Re: Nurses sell services back to NHS
> From: [log in to unmask]
> 6. Re: Nurses sell services back to NHS
> From: "jane dutton" <[log in to unmask]>
> 7. Re: Nurses sell services back to NHS
> From: "Claire Kennard" <[log in to unmask]>
> 8. Re: Nurses sell services back to NHS
> From: Deborah <[log in to unmask]>
> 9. Re: male midwife at homebirth
> From: "Claire Kennard" <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:59:07 +0000
> From: Cerys Byrne <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: human milk donors
>
> That makes sense.
>
> Cerys
>
>
> Nico Nelson wrote:
>> Cerys,
>>
>> I suppose the reason is that the milk is desperately needed for little
>> babies and especially premmies so while the bm from mothers of 6 month +
>> babies is still useful it is not useful for those that need the bm the>
> most.
>
>> Sam
>>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 05:35:11 EST
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Nurses sell services back to NHS
>
> If they can do it then so can the IMA and OMOM! How did they achieve
> this?
>
> Gail
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:55:39 +0000
> From: Deborah <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Re: Prolonged second stage
>
> Dear Georgina,
> My recollection of Jean's personal experience is that she states she
> has a platypelloid pelvis, first stage labour for days, then her baby
> got himself into the pelvis and came out........ relatively easily I
> think. Others may have clearer recollection.
> Debs Purdue
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:01:21 +0000
> From: Deborah <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Nurses sell services back to NHS
>
> Dear Midwives of Great Britain,
>
> Shall we put a proposal together with the One-to-one campaign, get a
> business proposal organised, get on the RCOG, Health Government offices
> in London, everywhere, and start laying out proposals for protocols and
> guidelines based on evidence, instinct, and intuition to work with
> women and consumer groups to take over the maternity services from our
> patriarchal masters????? Yeah-Ha! And set up selling our services,
> audited etc, back to the health service. Community based, of course.
>
> Debs Purdue Ind MW
> On 18 Nov 2005, at 07:22, eleanor wrote:
>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4448008.stm
>>
>>
>>
>> Isn't this almost full circle?
>>
>> IS
>> Eleanor Peck
>> Independent Midwife
>> www.birthathome.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 06:06:00 EST
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Nurses sell services back to NHS
>
>
> In a message dated 18/11/2005 11:03:13 GMT Standard Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> Dear Midwives of Great Britain,
>
> Shall we put a proposal together with the One-to-one campaign, get a
> business proposal organised, get on the RCOG, Health Government offices
> in London, everywhere, and start laying out proposals for protocols and
> guidelines based on evidence, instinct, and intuition to work with
> women and consumer groups to take over the maternity services from our
> patriarchal masters????? Yeah-Ha! And set up selling our services,
> audited etc, back to the health service. Community based, of course.
>
>
>
> Computer says yes. YES YES AND YES. How do we do it?
>
> Gail
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:30:10 -0000
> From: "jane dutton" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Nurses sell services back to NHS
>
> Thinking along similar lines myself, it's a great idea and extremely
> empowering for all us downtrodden NHS midwives trying to make a difference
> within a culture of budgets and deficits!
> Sign me up
> Jane
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Deborah
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 11:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [ukmidwifery] Nurses sell services back to NHS
>
>
> Dear Midwives of Great Britain,
>
> Shall we put a proposal together with the One-to-one campaign, get a
> business proposal organised, get on the RCOG, Health Government offices
> in London, everywhere, and start laying out proposals for protocols and
> guidelines based on evidence, instinct, and intuition to work with
> women and consumer groups to take over the maternity services from our
> patriarchal masters????? Yeah-Ha! And set up selling our services,
> audited etc, back to the health service. Community based, of course.
>
> Debs Purdue Ind MW
> On 18 Nov 2005, at 07:22, eleanor wrote:
>
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4448008.stm
> >
> >
> >
> > Isn't this almost full circle?
> >
> > IS
> > Eleanor Peck
> > Independent Midwife
> > www.birthathome.co.uk
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > CONFIDENTIALITY
> > Posts from this list must not be forwarded to other lists or
> > individuals without the express permission of the author.
> >
> > CHANGING YOUR UKMIDWIFERY SETTINGS:
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY
> Posts from this list must not be forwarded to other lists or individuals>
without the express permission of the author.
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> CHANGING YOUR UKMIDWIFERY SETTINGS:
>
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:40:08 -0000
> From: "Claire Kennard" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Nurses sell services back to NHS
>
> --- In [log in to unmask], Deborah <deblybug@m...> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Midwives of Great Britain,
>>
>> Shall we put a proposal together with the One-to-one campaign, get a
>> business proposal organised, get on the RCOG, Health Government
> offices
>> in London, everywhere, and start laying out proposals for protocols
> and
>> guidelines based on evidence, instinct, and intuition to work with
>> women and consumer groups to take over the maternity services from
> our
>> patriarchal masters????? Yeah-Ha! And set up selling our services,
>> audited etc, back to the health service. Community based, of course.
>>
>
> Hoorah! I'd go for it, in a shot. It makes sense... unlike a lot in
> the 'real life' world of midwifery...
>
> Claire
> Midwife!
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:42:56 +0000
> From: Deborah <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Nurses sell services back to NHS
>
> Dear All,
> I must say, I would love to develop this but how on earth one would do
> it I don't know. I know Laura, who has a young baby and older kids, is
> doing a great thing with the One2one campaign. The time is not right
> for me to start the revolution yet - still have it in my mind though!
> One day.........
>
> Debs Purdue
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:48:12 -0000
> From: "Claire Kennard" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: male midwife at homebirth
>
> --- In [log in to unmask], Beth-Midwifery <beth-
> midwifery@c...> wrote:
>>
>> I feel I have to put in my 2p worth. I resent being told that i
>> cannot possibly be a good midwife because I have not given birth to
> a
>> child. I would consider it a failing of my training and of my
>> compassion (or what ever you want to call it) if some one felt that
>> of me. Yes every woman should have a choice of who looks after her
>> and I would never deny anyone that but to make sweeping statements
>> like that helps nobody. I am not getting at people who have other
>> views to mine but would hope after meeting me that they would feel
>> differently.
>
> That kind of sums up how I feel, Beth- yes, I know everyone is
> probably fed up with this by now!
>
> What I'm getting from some people here is: everyone should be able to
> choose who they like based on whatever criteria they want. (fine, in
> principle, but where do you draw the line? Will I be refused because I
> am 'too young', what about the choices made based on racial or
> homophobic prejudice? Is that ok?). But I am also hearing 'based on
> experience, midwives with children were better than those without
> children, this is not a bias it is just a true experience'. So if this
> is really the truth, then should I give up now, and come back when
> I've found someone to inseminate me? Because the logical train of
> thought there is that I can't help being 'not as good' because I
> haven't got children. That's not from an 'opinion' point of view but
> if this is really what women are relating as their experiences,
> perhaps I oughtn't to be a midwife...?
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY
> Posts from this list must not be forwarded to other lists or individuals>
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>
> CHANGING YOUR UKMIDWIFERY SETTINGS:
>
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>
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