The government were previously rejecting these website estimates
(which are based on press reports, so an under-estimate) - I
suppose the Lancet article has caused them to at least fall back on
an estimate previously rejected as too high.
I think as a 'numerate social scientific discipline' we can affirm the
rigour of the Lancet article too.
On 18 Nov 2004, at 13:46, Petra Boynton wrote:
> It seems that all the way along, the government has chosen to rely on
> information from websites, rather than from rigorous, quality research
> or other NGO or charity figures.
>
> I think if anyone has had similar responses from their MP, these
> ought to be collated, and I think made public. A journalist such as
> Brian Deer or similar would be able to make an excellent story out of
> MPs stating they prefer to pick random ideas from websites that
> support their cause - rather than believing more thorough accounts.
>
> I also feel that anyone who hasn't yet written to their MP now ought
> to do so - not simply to make their point about the war in Iraq, but
> to gather responses. If a number of MPs say something similar, it is
> a good story to make public.
>
> Thanks Paul for bringing this to our attention.
>
> I'm aware that elsewhere in the media many journalists prefer to use
> websites or books written by unqualified 'experts' to back up their
> stories - rather than relying on research findings in peer reviewed
> journals. Part of a wider problem I know, but it does beg the
> question - what's the point in our doing this rigorous work, if our
> press and our politicians run roughshod over it?
>
> Petra
>
> ---- Original Message ----
> From: [log in to unmask]
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [Fwd: ANNOUNCEMENT]
> Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:18:49 -0000
>
> >After I wrote to my MP (Tom Levitt - Labour) stating my concern over
> >the civilian deaths in Iraq following the report in the Lancet that
> >estimated there to be 98,000 civilian deaths, he replied stating that
> >he had more confidence in the figures reported on web sites than in
> >the academic paper published in a peer reviewed medical journal ...
> >interesting.... He's exact words are:
> >
> >"This report has to be put in context. Over the last 12 months there
> >have been a number of websites, updated daily, by those who oppose
> >the war. These websites have claimed to have authoritative figures on
> >the number of dead and wounded. By and large, it is the view of those
> >websites that the actual figures is around 30,000. The 'official'
> >figures, based on the actual number of deaths and injuries reported
> >to actual hospitals and medical facilities throughout Iraq is half
> >that number, around 15,000. I am inclined to discount The Lancet
> >figure, which is the only survey which has reached a figure of
> >anything like that number."
> >
> >Has anyone else had any similar bilge come through their letter box
> >after writing to their MP? If you do, I recommend you reply asking
> >for the government to release all the data collected by the military
> >that they have on civilian deaths in Iraq since March 2003.
> >
> >Incidentally, you can find websites that report the Jewish Holocaust
> >never happened, should we believe those sites too?
> >
> >Here is a paragraph from a paper I have submitted to a US CP journal
> >
> >"The first scientific survey of civilian deaths in Iraq since the
> >beginning of the military action by coalition forces in March 2003
> >was recently published in The Lancet (Roberts et al., 2004). The
> >survey reported 100 000 excess deaths or more had occurred since the
> >2003 invasion of Iraq with violence accounting for a majority of
> >those deaths and with over half of those who had died violently being
> >women and children. An author of the study, Dr Les Roberts of Johns
> >Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore, stated this
> >to be a rather conservative figure and that the death toll could be
> >considerably higher. Unsurprisingly, the Pentagon in the USA and
> >Downing Street in the UK were quick in their attempts to discredit
> >the survey. However, previously the total death toll (civilians and
> >combatants) of the ‘war on Iraq’ between March 20th and October 20th
> >in 2003 was estimated to be between 21,700 and 55,000 (MEDACT, 2003).
> >Thus, such death toll figures are not without precedent."
> >
> >MEDACT (2003). Continuing collateral damage: The health and
> >environmental
> >costs of war on Iraq. MEDACT. Retrieved from http://www.medact.org.
> >
> >
> >p
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> >[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Mark Burton
> >Sent: 17 November 2004 18:05 To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] [Fwd: ANNOUNCEMENT]
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------- Original Message
> >----------------------------
> >Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT
> >From: "Ignacio" <[log in to unmask]>
> >Date: Wed, November 17, 2004 3:29 am
> >To: "Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@cariari.ucr.ac.cr
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >-----
> >
> >En blanco
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >From Mark Burton
> >Manchester UK
> >
> >___________________________________
> >
> >COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in
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> >
> >___________________________________
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> >COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in
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>
> ___________________________________
>
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