One of the interesting things about the Momus
passage is its skeptical glance at the venerable
physiognomic formulas, "the face is the index of
the mind" and "the body is the index of the soul."
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James C. Nohrnberg [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Mon 6/7/2004 5:24 PM
> To: Mulryan, John
> Cc: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: windows on souls
>
>
>
> Dear John (and fellow Contian!) -- Could you forward this
> to the Spenser-list for me, if you'd be so kind an
> officer. Gratefully yours, Jim
>
> "As for man, [Momus] agreed that this creation [by
> Prometheus, after AEsop's fable, "Zeus, Prometheus,
> Athena, and Momus"] was almost divine. Yet if any
> nobililty of form could be seen in him, it was not the
> invention of his maker, but was drawn from the appearance
> of the gods. Still, said Momus, the job had been carried
> out stupidly in one respect, for man's mind had been
> hidden in his chest, among his internal organs, whereas it
> ought to have been placed upon his lofty brow, in the open
> space of his face." -- L.B. Alberti, 'Momus,' I.7, trans.
> Sarah Knight, p. 17.
>
> Compare the dialogue of Lucian, 'Hermotimus, or the Rival
> Philsophers,' at 20: "Lycinus [speaks]: How could you
> [=Hermotimus] discern the true philosopher from the false,
> then, by the marks you mentioned? It is not the way of
> such qualities to come out like that; they are hidden and
> secret; they are revealed only under long and patient
> observation, in talk and debate and the conduct they
> inspire. You have probably heard of Momus's indictment of
> Hephaestus; if not, you shall have it now. According to
> the myth, Athene, Poesidon, and Hephaestus had a match in
> inventiveness. Posidon made a bull, Athene planned a
> house, Hephaestus constructed a man; when they came before
> Momus, who was to judge, he examined their productions; I
> need not trouble you with his criticisms of the other two
> [Alberti supplies these -- the house should have been a
> Winnebago -- it lacks wheels]; but his objection to the
> man, and the fault he found with Hephaestus, was this: he
> should have made a window in his chest, so that, when it
> was opened, his thoughts and designs, his truth or
> falsehood, might have been apparent. Momus must have been
> blear-eyed, to have such ideas about men; but you have
> sharper eyes than Lynceus, and pierce through the chest to
> what is inside; all is patent to you, not merely any man's
> wishes and sentiments, but the comparative merits of any
> pair." (Trans. H.W. & F.G. Fowler, Works of Lucian,
> 2:51f.)
>
> [And compare Caesar on the critical Cassius in
> Shakespeare: "I do not know the man I should avoid / So
> soon as that spare Cassius. He reads much, / He is a
> great observer, and he looks / Quite through the deeds of
> men. He loves no plays, ... he hears no music. / Seldom
> he smiles, and smiles in such a sort / As if he mocked
> himself, and scorned his spirit / That could be moved to
> smile at anything. / Such men as he be never at heart's
> ease / Whiles they behold a greater than themselves" (JC
> 1.2.202ff.).]
>
> And compare Lear's desire to anatomize the heart of Regan,
> or of Cordelia for that matter ("But goes thy heart with
> this?"). Or compare Othello's asking to be shown Iago's
> thought, "close dilations, working from the heart." Or
> Hamlet's objection to one's plucking out the heart of his
> mystery. -- All suggesting that the fable goes back to an
> ancient split in our ideas about where our thinking and
> feeling are really located, physiologically speaking: as
> much as (or as well as) morally.
> -- Jim Nohrnberg
>
>
> On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 16:03:00 -0400
> "Mulryan, John" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >The Lucian account also appears in Natale Conti's chapter
> >on Momus in the Mythologiae.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Louis A. Montrose [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Mon 6/7/2004 3:36 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Cc:
> > Subject: Re: Elizabeth's window
> >
> >
> > It was Francis Bacon who wrote that the Queen did not
> >wish "to make windows into men's hearts and secret
> >thoughts, except the abundance of them did overflow into
> >overt express acts and affirmationsimpugning and
> >impeaching advisedly and ambitiously her majesty's
> >supreme power" ("Certain Observations Made Upon a Libel
> >Published this Present Year 1592"). Similar sentiments
> >were expressed by Elizabeth herself in letters, but the
> >famous phrasing is Bacon's. Anne's citation of Lucian
> >is much to the point here, as evidenced by a related
> >passage in an antipapist tract by John Baxter in 1600.
> > Baxter wishfully proposed that, "if a window were framed
> >in the brests of these discontented catholikesher
> >Majestie and the state-guiding counsell and all true
> >friends to the kingdom might know their secret
> >intentions."
> > LAM
> >
> > At 02:30 PM 6/7/2004 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> >
> > I'd love to know the answer. I also heard many years
> >ago something on how
> > somebody said that Henry VIII "doth make windows into
> >men's souls." I
> > wonder if the phrase, whoever said it and when, doesn't
> >have a faint echo
> > of Lucian's story (maybe he got it from others) that
> >when Momus was
> > complaining about various divine inventions he said
> >that Zeus should have
> > made men with windows in their breasts so we could know
> >what our neighbors
> > were thinking. I may have that garbled, but it was
> >something to the effect
> > than an opaque thorax is a problem for others. James,
> >many years ago
> > there was a collection of Elizabeth's "sayings" by
> >Chamberlain, was
> > it? A lot of them are of cours spurious. Anne
> >(Prescott)
> >
> > On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 [log in to unmask] wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Experts,
> > >
> > > Where, if anywhere, does Elizabeth actually say that
> >she does not wish to make a window into men's souls?
> > >
> > > Dr. James Dougal Fleming,
> > > Assistant Professor of English,
> > > Simon Fraser University,
> > > (604) 291-4713
> > >
> > > Laissez parler les faits.
> > >
> >
>
> [log in to unmask]
> James Nohrnberg
> Dept. of English
> Univ. of Virginia
> Charlottesville, VA 22903On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 16:03:00 -0400
> "Mulryan, John" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >The Lucian account also appears in Natale Conti's chapter
> >on Momus in the Mythologiae.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Louis A. Montrose [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Mon 6/7/2004 3:36 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Cc:
> > Subject: Re: Elizabeth's window
> >
> >
> > It was Francis Bacon who wrote that the Queen did not
> >wish "to make windows into men's hearts and secret
> >thoughts, except the abundance of them did overflow into
> >overt express acts and affirmationsimpugning and
> >impeaching advisedly and ambitiously her majesty's
> >supreme power" ("Certain Observations Made Upon a Libel
> >Published this Present Year 1592"). Similar sentiments
> >were expressed by Elizabeth herself in letters, but the
> >famous phrasing is Bacon's. Anne's citation of Lucian
> >is much to the point here, as evidenced by a related
> >passage in an antipapist tract by John Baxter in 1600.
> > Baxter wishfully proposed that, "if a window were framed
> >in the brests of these discontented catholikesher
> >Majestie and the state-guiding counsell and all true
> >friends to the kingdom might know their secret
> >intentions."
> > LAM
> >
> > At 02:30 PM 6/7/2004 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> >
> > I'd love to know the answer. I also heard many years
> >ago something on how
> > somebody said that Henry VIII "doth make windows into
> >men's souls." I
> > wonder if the phrase, whoever said it and when, doesn't
> >have a faint echo
> > of Lucian's story (maybe he got it from others) that
> >when Momus was
> > complaining about various divine inventions he said
> >that Zeus should have
> > made men with windows in their breasts so we could know
> >what our neighbors
> > were thinking. I may have that garbled, but it was
> >something to the effect
> > than an opaque thorax is a problem for others. James,
> >many years ago
> > there was a collection of Elizabeth's "sayings" by
> >Chamberlain, was
> > it? A lot of them are of cours spurious. Anne
> >(Prescott)
> >
> > On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 [log in to unmask] wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Experts,
> > >
> > > Where, if anywhere, does Elizabeth actually say that
> >she does not wish to make a window into men's souls?
> > >
> > > Dr. James Dougal Fleming,
> > > Assistant Professor of English,
> > > Simon Fraser University,
> > > (604) 291-4713
> > >
> > > Laissez parler les faits.
> > >
> >
>
> [log in to unmask]
> James Nohrnberg
> Dept. of English
> Univ. of Virginia
> Charlottesville, VA 22903
>
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