A long time ago I did an article on "mimetic and aesthetic" rhythms,
not an adequate pair of categories by a long shot, but an effort to
distinguish between those sounds and rhythms whose patterns are
complex and pleasing for whatever reason (usually some sort of
repetition and surprise), "aesthetic," and those that either sought
to reflect meaning or that we interpret as reflecting meaning,
"mimetic." Roger's "murder..." would be aesthetic (his example, not
the fact), while the "murmur..." would be mimetic. Language and
sound are wonderfully fun because so much hovers between sound and
meaning, and how we individually and as a community of readers hear
that interchange.
By the way, I think Spenser wrote one of the few great "l" lines in
English, "Her long loose yellow locks lyke golden wyre."
Susanne
>In the vein of David's skepticism: who was it -- old age, you know --
>who said that Keats's "murmur of innumerable bees" worked just as
>well with the "murder of innumerable beeves"?
>
>Roger Kuin
>
>>At 02:31 PM 3/3/2004 -0500, Carol Kaske wrote:
>>>>>>
>>In view of some current skepticism about onomatopoeia etc., I'm delighted
>>to see that Frye believed in "imitative harmony . . . the sound being an
>>echo of the sense," which is a neglected dimension of Spenser's poetry.
>><<<<
>>
>>I am, in general, one of the skeptics. So, I might add, was Dr. Johnson.
>>But that is irrelevant. They -- meaning critics in the Renaissance --
>>believed in "imitative harmony," AND THERE'S AN END ON IT! (As the Great
>>Cham would say.) Virgil, in particular, was famous in this period for the
>>number and variety of his verbal sound effects. See María José Vega Ramos,
>>El secreto artificio: Qualitas sonorum, maronolatría y tradición pontaniana
>>en la poética del Renacimiento (Madrid, 1992).
>>
>>Did Virgil intend to produce the sound effects that the critics discovered?
>>In some cases, there is no question, because the effects are so obvious
>>(e.g., "taratantara," which is the sound that a trumpet makes in Virgil's
>>predecessor Ennius). With more subtle effects -- and Virgil's effects,
>>whatever they are, are more subtle -- it is hard to judge. We hear what we
>>expect to hear. "Dover Beach" is connected with the seaside, and so of
>>course the rhythm of the poem reminds us of the ebb and flow of the tides.
>>But is that really what the poem sounds like? Is it the sound of the words
>>that puts us in mind of the sea, or is it the meaning of the words?
>>
>>Frankly, I can't tell. With Spenser, though, I think we're on firmer
>>ground. If you believe that Homer is writing allegory, and you want to
>>imitate Homer, then you WILL write allegory. That's probably what Virgil
>>did. It's the same with imitative harmony. If you think that Virgil used
>>words to imitate sound, and you are trying to imitate Virgil, you will,
>>probably, use words to imitate sound. And if you have any talent, it will
>>probably work, too.
>>
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>David Wilson-Okamura http://virgil.org [log in to unmask]
>>East Carolina University Virgil reception, discussion, documents, &c
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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