Hi
Not sure any of them 'do' the process - I thought that's what teachers
did... :)
By the way, I reviewed the LAMS system on behalf of one of the JISC
e-learning programmes and it's grim stuff in my opinion - reminds me of
one of those ghastly instructional systems that the government toyed
with in the late 80s.
simonf
On 15 Nov 2004, at 15:41, Gianni Marconato wrote:
> Will some list colleagues please let me know which VLEs are focused on
> the
> content management and which one are on the process? just to
> understand the
> issue?
> Regards
> Gianni Marconato
>
> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: Virtual Learning Environments [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Per
> conto di
> Malcolm Ryan
> Inviato: luned́ 15 novembre 2004 15.31
> A: [log in to unmask]
> Oggetto: [VLES] Some VLE ignore process at the expense of content (as
> do
> many teachers)
>
> I agree they often do.Anyone know of VLEs that focus on process rather
> than
> product - perhaps more importantly can anyone direct me to published
> case
> studies that focus on the process or learning rather than product -
> let's
> have less content delivery and more learning.
>
>
>
>
>
> Peter Trethewey <[log in to unmask]>@JISCMAIL.AC.UK> on 15/11/2004
> 13:27:15
>
> Please respond to Virtual Learning Environments <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Sent by: Virtual Learning Environments <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> cc:
> Subject: Re: [VLES] "doing things to students rather than empowering
> them"
>
>
> I think this debate might be characterised as Content vs. Process.
> There
> is a danger that the old model of teacher as "transmitter of knowledge"
> becomes replaced with teacher as "shifter of Office files".
>
> Teaching only really comes alive in the "learning process" whether face
> to face, internal (in mind), via chat groups or discussion lists or
> email.
>
> Some VLE ignore process at the expense of content (as do many teachers)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Virtual Learning Environments [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> Behalf Of Malcolm Ryan
> Sent: 15 November 2004 12:28
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VLES] "doing things to students rather than empowering
> them"
>
> Well David yes a VLE does serve up materials from which students can
> choose but who chooses which materials will be made available? In an
> Open - Closed system, distance learning is often quite closed because
> the teacher has decided what will be learnt using what resources. In a
> more open system the students would choose what is learnt and how
> including what materials and tools are used. In a VLE (although I have
> heard of one or two alternative
> models) usually the student does not have the level of 'control' to
> allow them to be used in such an 'open' way.
>
>
>
>
>
> David Wallace <[log in to unmask]>@JISCMAIL.AC.UK> on 15/11/2004
> 10:31:15
>
> Please respond to Virtual Learning Environments <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Sent by: Virtual Learning Environments <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> cc:
> Subject: Re: [VLES] "doing things to students rather than empowering
> them"
>
>
> I agree that teachers not being able to see others course content might
> be counter productive, however surely there is some kind of repository
> enabling resources to be shared?
>
> I don't really see where the train of thought regarding didactic
> teaching is going. I thought that some of the benefits of a VLE is
> that
> learners are presented with materials which will direct and educate
> them
> and which they can access flexibly, ultimately with a view to passing
> assessment and effectively and efficiently fulfilling some role in
> society? As long as a VLE provides direction and experience of
> utilising various kinds of resources I don't see what the problem is.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Virtual Learning Environments [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On
> Behalf
> Of Ken Smith
> Sent: 12 November 2004 20:47
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VLES] "doing things to students rather than empowering
> them"
>
>
> I would agree that like so many other items of technology many VLEs
> have
> not delivered the goods. From the students point of view some are as
> restrictive as old fashioned didactic teaching where the teacher
> insited
> that the library only stocked the one course book. The way most VLEs
> isolate students from content for other courses means that the student
> is being driven by the person controlling the course. Where does that
> leave managing ones own learning. We use Blackboard not particularly
> well but it is very much the blind leading the blind. The way
> Blackboard prevents users, including teachers from seeing content for
> other courses is, I believe counter productive, The students get to
> see
> one view point only and when teachers cannot see each others work there
> is no incentive to share and what is worse, better materials may exist
> in your own institution and you do not know about it. So far the best
> systems I have seen are those where people have developed their own
> system from their old intranet.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Virtual Learning Environments [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On
> Behalf
> Of Malcolm Ryan
> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 6:59 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VLES] "doing things to students rather than empowering
> them"
>
>
> Thanks for that Dan - how do others feel about the issue of VLEs being
> institution driven and not really empowering students or am I on a very
> thin piece of wood here?
>
>
>
>
>
> Dan Stowell <[log in to unmask]>@JISCMAIL.AC.UK> on 11/11/2004
> 10:45:14
>
> Please respond to Virtual Learning Environments <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Sent by: Virtual Learning Environments <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> cc:
> Subject: Re: [VLES] "doing things to students rather than empowering
> them"
>
>
>> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:15:41 +0000
>> From: Malcolm Ryan <[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: Snapshot survey on VLE funding
>>
>> Of course one aspect of all VLE whether free or not is that they are
>> essentially about the institution doing things to students rather than
>> empowering them. At a number of recent workshops with colleagues we
>> have been introducing them to a number of 'free' tools such as
>> Smartgroups, Quicktopic, MSN, Hot Potatoes, etc and extolling the
>> virtues of them being set up and used by students in partnership with
>> us (sometimes) so that
> they
>> have control of the technology. How many institutional VLE facilitate
>> such an approach?
>
> Moodle does have features to facilitate this approach - the best
> example
> being that a course can be based primarily around open discussion.
> Students can also create/edit wikis, keep journals, participate in
> workshops - there are quite a few tools with the teachers and students
> on a (roughly) equal footing.
>
> In lots of ways Moodle follows a similar path to WebCT, but I think
> this
> respect is a particularly interesting difference. It very clearly tries
> to allow for a "social constructivist" approach...
>
> Dan
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dan Stowell
> Faculty Information Support Officer (Life Sciences), UCL
> http://www.ucl.ac.uk/is/fiso/lifesciences/
>
> Room B07A, Drayton House, 30 Gordon Street, London
> Phone: +44 (0)20 7679 5472 (within UCL: dial 25472)
> Email: [log in to unmask]
>
> ***************** List information: ***************** Remember -
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> Access the list via the web on http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/vle.html
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>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Malcolm Ryan (Flexible Learning Co-ordinator) School of Education &
> Training, University of Greenwich, Maritime Greenwich Campus Old
> Royal
> Naval College, Park Row, Greenwich, London. SE10 9LS
>
> TEL: +44 (0)208-331-9741/9230 FAX: +44 (0)208-331-9235
> E-mail: [log in to unmask] URL:
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>
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>
> ***************** List information: ***************** Remember -
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> ***************** List information: ***************** Remember -
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>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Malcolm Ryan (Flexible Learning Co-ordinator) School of Education &
> Training, University of Greenwich, Maritime Greenwich Campus Old
> Royal
> Naval College, Park Row, Greenwich, London. SE10 9LS
>
> TEL: +44 (0)208-331-9741/9230 FAX: +44 (0)208-331-9235
> E-mail: [log in to unmask] URL:
> http://gre-guns2.gre.ac.uk/pcet/pcetweb.nsf
> Work at home: +44 (0)208-488-6614 Mobile: 07808-594930 (SMS
> facility)
> Location:
> http://www.gre.ac.uk/about/estates/maps/maritime_directions.htm
>
> CeLTT Programme URL: http://www.gre.ac.uk/celtt Getting to Grips with
> eLearning URL: http://www.gre.ac.uk/celtt/workshops
>
> ***************** List information: ***************** Remember -
> replies
> go by default to the entire list.
> Access the list via the web on http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/vle.html
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> ***************** List information: *****************
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>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Malcolm Ryan (Flexible Learning Co-ordinator)
> School of Education & Training, University of Greenwich, Maritime
> Greenwich Campus
> Old Royal Naval College, Park Row, Greenwich, London. SE10 9LS
>
> TEL: +44 (0)208-331-9741/9230 FAX: +44 (0)208-331-9235
> E-mail: [log in to unmask] URL:
> http://gre-guns2.gre.ac.uk/pcet/pcetweb.nsf
> Work at home: +44 (0)208-488-6614 Mobile: 07808-594930 (SMS
> facility)
> Location:
> http://www.gre.ac.uk/about/estates/maps/maritime_directions.htm
>
> CeLTT Programme URL: http://www.gre.ac.uk/celtt
> Getting to Grips with eLearning URL:
> http://www.gre.ac.uk/celtt/workshops
>
> ***************** List information: *****************
> Remember - replies go by default to the entire list.
> Access the list via the web on http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/vle.html
> The Ferl VLE Focus Area is at
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> ***************** List information: *****************
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