Mike,
I knew there was something fishy going on, something drawn from the depths.
Personally speaking I don't object to having the author in the poem, as long
as there is plenty of other material too (as here) and possibly some
fertility between the two. But it's a good thing to think about and to be
aware of,
as something that can run to excess.
As for having the author in a metaphorical poem,
you've raised an interesting question and I don't know the answer to that.
My first thought is that few poems are entirely metaphorical, and as in a
conversation, there's rarely just one thing going on. So the aspects which
are not just metaphorical can support the existence of the author.(???)

Colin



----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Horwood" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: Bream - Colin


> Hello Colin,
              Many thanks for your suggestions on this one and I´m certainly
going to incorporate some, if not all, of them. Regarding your query about
is the fish being pulled; of course, each reader makes their own mental
picture of a poem but I imagined that the bream here exists only in the
narrator´s mind. There is no real bream. The narrator begins by trying to
revive a memory - `If I concentrate hard enough....´ , he tries to draw the
components, images, mood, feeling, of that memory into consciousness. In the
poem that action is imaged by the metaphor of the bream. So `I gradually
draw the shape of a bream out of the lake´ refers to drawing the memory of
that day into consciousness. The marks in the mud at the end could be read
as impressions in the narrators memory. It could also be read as the poet
drawing the words to make the poem out of his brain, literally `drawing ´
them on the page, although I understand that it´s not very popular to have
the author so present in the poem. I´m not clear whether he/she can be
present metaphorically, though ;->.
I hope this all makes some sense.




Best wishes,   Mike



> Lähettäjä: Colin dewar <[log in to unmask]>
> Päiväys: 2004/01/21 ke PM 11:11:15 GMT+02:00
> Vastaanottaja: [log in to unmask]
> Aihe: Re: New sub: Bream
>
> Mike,
>
> I like this one. It's easy on the ear and easy on the (inner) eye too. My
> first thought was that it can be condensed, but then I though, why? True,
> there are one or two redundant words, but then if I read through it once
and
> derive a swift and satisfying flow of images then I may not need it to be
> shorter. Indeed it's possible that some of the condensations I could have
> suggested would have made it "longer" to read. Instead what I've done is
> suggest some changes that are meant to adjust the sound of the poem. Any
> improvement is subjective and it could well be that you prefer the sound
of
> the original.
> Colin
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Horwood" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 9:23 AM
> Subject: New sub: Bream
>
> Bream
>
> If I concentrate hard enough, I will see it,
> that day like a Chinese watercolour
> with grey trees in a pale mist,
> CLIFFS in the distance,
> and two figures by a lake.
> A silent day with blank spaces,
> as comfortless as going barefoot on the shore.
> And what seems like stillness to a casual glance
> closer observation reveals ....DELETION OF "a"
> IS slight and intermittent stirring
> among the dripping boughs,
> like the suspicion of movement underwater
> where vision and imagination meet. DELETE  "at the point"
>
> By dint of careful contemplation, I grasp
> and store each hard-won glimpse
> of shade and change of tone that slides
> beneath the flash of surface light,
> THEN draw the shape of a large bream
> out of the lake´s dark depths. DELETE "into the shallows beside the jetty"
> TO TRY TO GET THE SENTENCE DOWN TO A SAYABLE LENGTH.
> It drifts among the stems,
> sifts the soft silt of past generations
> of water plants for nourishment,
> sucks and blows yellow ochre clouds
> and leaves these signs behind;
> pock marks in the mud, lines
> where its tail has dragged.
>
>
>
>
>
> Mike
>
> ALSO I WASN'T SURE WHETHER THE FISH WAS BEING PULLED  ON A LINE OR HAD
FOUND
> ITS WAY THERE OF ITS OWN ACCORD. D.K. IF THIS MATTERS. THERE IS OF COURSE
> THE POSSIBILITY OF A METAPHORICAL FISH FROM OTHER WATERS THAN THE LITERAL
> WATERS OF A RIVER.
>
>
> ORIG:
> Bream
>
> If I concentrate hard enough, I will see it,
> that day like a Chinese watercolour
> with grey trees in a pale mist,
> mist and shapes merging in the distance,
> and two figures by a lake.
> A silent day with blank spaces,
> as comfortless as going barefoot on the shore.
> And what seems like stillness to a casual glance
> a closer observation reveals
> as slight and intermittent stirring
> among the dripping boughs,
> like the suspicion of movement underwater
> at the point where vision and imagination meet.
>
> By dint of careful contemplation, to grasp
> and store each hard-won glimpse
> of shade and change of tone that slides
> beneath the flash of surface light,
> I gradually draw the shape of a large bream
> out of the lake´s dark depths
> into the shallows beside the jetty.
> It drifts among the stems,
> sifts the soft silt of past generations
> of water plants for nourishment,
> sucks and blows yellow ochre clouds
> and leaves these signs behind;
> pock marks in the mud, lines
> where its tail has dragged.
>
>
>
>
>
> Mike
>