Hi Christina,
I'll go along with what you're saying here - and so subdue what I initially
said to a hardly heard murmur.
I've often thought that poets and painters had much in common - but I think
I was making a mistake in the parallel that I drew. I mean I was just
finishing the washing up last night when I realised that painters might not
see their paintings again if they've been sold! Poet's on the other hand
keep their copies.
... And now I'm thinking of mischievous tales of painters who've gone along
later and modified a painting they'd previously sold...
Bob

>From: Christina Fletcher <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Pennine Poetry Works <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: It Came Upon A Midnight Clear (Bob)
>Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:17:10 EST
>
>I'm not sure that it's possible to explore how a painter sees him/herself
>as
>a painter in general terms.  I suppose we have to question if and how  each
>image was deliberately manipulated in order to create a preconceived
>effect.
>Is the thought process 'I want to paint myself to show I'm an  artist (or
>whatever) so I'll set the stage, pop in some props as clues and  use my
>skill to
>paint a likeness' (Gossaert?) or 'I want to paint.  I'll  paint myself.
>I'm
>painting and in the process of looking I've lost the  sense of self.  I've
>finished: this is what I've seen.' (Van Gogh,  Rembrandt?) or 'I'm my own
>prop.  I
>manipulate my (the same) image to  show many images.' (Sherman?) or 'This
>is
>an image of my face.  I'll use it  to create an abstraction that's still a
>portrait.' (Warhol?) and so on...   But perhaps you're already thinking in
>specific rather than a general  sense?
>I'm beginning to come to terms with what you said about your poem but it
>still doesn't quite ring my bell but I'm not too hot shakes at reading so I
>wouldn't give my thoughts much weight.
>bw
>christina
>
>Hi  Christina,
>The painting I saw in Prague by Jan Gossaert is very different  from the
>one
>in Vienna (which I've only seen on my computer screen!). I'm  assuming he
>painted the same thing a few times in his career - and why  shouldn't he, I
>mean we write poems about the same kind of things through  the years? - and
>I
>became fascinated by his idea of including himself in  the painting! I
>could
>talk for a wine bottle or two about what I saw, what  effect the picture
>had
>on me.
>I guess, in what we're discussing now,  we're exploring more how an painter
>sees himself/herself as a painter and  I'm interested in that because it
>might help me appreciate how a poet sees  himself/herself as a creator of
>poems - and, in the poem I posted, I think  I'm trying to say: "This poem
>takes, say, 5 seconds to read and that's a  similar time to the incident it
>describes!" But, in what I mentioned, I was  trying to extend that insight
>to
>other artists - but I guess I might just  have been trying to divert
>attention from a weak point in what I was trying  to do!
>Maybe I'm just going through a phase of wondering why I'm so  interested in
>what poets, painters, et al, are  about...
>Bob
>
>
>