Hi Arthur,
Lord Of The Rings, ring wraiths... perhaps you're proving my point! Tolkien
is so unreal - whereas the people you mention are so real, so much a part of
the Kieghley you know!
Lethes I'm prepared to accept, tho... you've plenty of references to water
and the allusions to Lethe bring far more powerful resonances, and far less
victoriana, with them.
Bob

>From: Arthur Seeley <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Pennine Poetry Works <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: New Sub: Keighley
>Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 11:31:13 -0000
>
>Hi Bob. Yes you have read an earlier version of this, which is not greatly
>changed, by the way.But changed nevertheless. You did comment on wraiths
>and
>Lethe before. I don't think wraith is so old fashioned, or rather beyond
>common understanding. Lord of the Rings had the Ring-Wraiths. lethe is of
>course greek mythology but surely that is accessible to us.
>Anyway thanks for reading and commenting. Arthur
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bob Cooper" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 4:47 PM
>Subject: Re: New Sub: Keighley
>
>
> > Hi Arthur,
> > I  seem to remember reading this before... so, if I did and commented
>then,
> > it might be fascinating to compare how I'm responding now to how I
>responded
> > then (Ha!, if I made a coment then, I can't remember!).
> > I like it.
> > I like the way the word "soft" ONLY hints at the water.
> > But I'm wondering about the impact of the words "wraiths" and "Lethes"
>in
> > the poem. Even tho Keighley is essentialy a Victorian town (built beside
>the
> > soft water for the hard cash of industry) the word wraiths might be a
>tad
> > too Victorian in tone, and perhaps a tad too elusive in meaning. I sense
> > you're meaning glue-sniffers, lighter fuel, et al, but the word brings
>too
> > much Victorian I'm-OK-but-I-get-a-bit-of-pity-only-when-I-see-them (and
>I'm
> > glad I don't see them very often) kinds of sentiments with it. The word
> > belongs to a world before even Victorian Social Reformers began to
>change
> > things! I want up to date words. I'm getting 21st century images, so I
>guess
> > I'm asking for contemporary words to contrast to, to play against and
>with,
> > Lethe!
> > I mean - says Bob, warming to his point - you mention "long ago" next in
>the
> > poem, so let's have something that says "Hey, this is Now!" (whenever
>the
> > "now" happens to be... "nowadays" says a lot but I'm trying to help the
> > "nowadays" word say a little more).
> > And, as a next point, I sense a huge gap between the subjects of the
>poem
> > and the writer. Even naming the beck might be enough to introduce some
> > closeness. (If I were writing this I may want to introduce more
>closeness,
> > more details about the now, but then I'd be changing the politics of the
> > poem)
> > It's a canny piece.
> > Bob
> >
> >
> > >From: Arthur Seeley <[log in to unmask]>
> > >Reply-To: The Pennine Poetry Works <[log in to unmask]>
> > >To: [log in to unmask]
> > >Subject: New Sub: Keighley
> > >Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:58:01 -0000
> > >
> > >Keighley
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >A swift run of soft water
> > >
> > >out of the moors and gritstone hills,
> > >
> > >dammed and wiered,
> > >
> > >a market for woollen goods in the wider world -
> > >
> > >all that was needed to build a town -so they did.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Cluttering the valley, sprawling up steep hills,
> > >
> > >a collage of styles, materials and aspirations-
> > >
> > >but it's the same with most places round here,
> > >
> > >the smell of decay, the matt of grimy disuse;
> > >
> > >silent mills and cold chimneys.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >The streams are Lethes now.
> > >
> > >Wraiths, thin as willow wands,
> > >
> > >pale as peeled sticks, wander the banks
> > >
> > >murder their childhoods, choke on memories.
> > >
> > >Can or needle, a little death suffices.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >They say that long ago they found a mad man,
> > >
> > >naked and knee-deep
> > >
> > >in the cold rapids of the Beck,
> > >
> > >singing vulgar songs to hymn tunes.
> > >
> > >They pulled him out, dried him,
> > >
> > >gave him clothes and a penny
> > >
> > >and put him on the road to Halifax,
> > >
> > >or so the story goes.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >nowadays he would not be noticed.
> >
> >