Hi Sally,
You write: "I do know that some editors are purists and say only the
Shakespearian sonnet and
Petriachan sonnet is the only correct form."
Yeh, sigh, some editors...
It's sad.
I guess I sometimes feel sorry for them.
Bob
>From: Sally James <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Pennine Poetry Works <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: new sub In my dreams (revised) Bob
>Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 14:28:12 +0100
>
>Bob, Thank you very much for this very detailed reply. I will print your
>reply and save for future referance.
>It is very kind of you to go to all this trouble.
>I take note of all you say and I am glad of your response which fits in
>with what I think too.I wasn't sure as I do know that some editors are
>purists and say only the Shakespearian sonnet and Petriachan sonnet is the
>only correct form. I am glad there can be variations. Thanks Sally J
>
>>From: Bob Cooper <[log in to unmask]>
>>Reply-To: The Pennine Poetry Works <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: new sub In my dreams (revised)
>>Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 14:54:31 +0000
>>
>>Hi Sally,
>>
>>Oh, you ask the most interesting question: is this a sonnet? (Well,
>>actually you ask if it’s a variation… but every one’s a variation – of a
>>form that originated in Sicily and has been lost! So, I read you as simply
>>asking: is this a sonnet.)
>>
>>It’s one of those questions that ain’t easy to answer – cos it depends
>>what else is seen as a sonnet.
>>
>>I mean, definitions exist – and most of the definitions seem to infer that
>>there are rules for particular types of sonnet, usually with particular
>>rhyme schemes – and often with an iambic pentameter line length. (But I’ve
>>got one or two sonnets stored somewhere that have only one word on each
>>line…). And I’d want to say that Pushkin’s Yevgeny Onegin’s a novel of
>>sonnets – using the same line length as you’re using.
>>
>>Then there’s the notion that a sonnet MUST have 14 lines – but it needn’t
>>necessarily follow a traditional rhyme scheme, and the inference is that
>>it’s got to look as if it’s a sonnet. (But Tony Harrison writes 16 line
>>sonnets – and he wasn’t the first guy to do that! And Gerald Manley
>>Hopkins’ Pied Beauty can be seen to have all the hallmarks of being a
>>sonnet, too – but it’s only got 10½ lines!)
>>
>>Then there’s Famous Seamus’s appreciation that a sonnet must have the feel
>>of being a sonnet, that sonnets have muscles and sinews rather than three
>>easily separable but neat fitting bits. I like that, cos I often feel the
>>sonnets magic’s made in the way the ending carries echoes and hints of
>>what’s gone before yet, as well as alluding to the two things that’ve been
>>said (and often the first thing more than the second), it also says
>>something else. I guess it usually follows the way we often think: “On one
>>hand…” followed by “On the other hand…” and concluding “And then”/or
>>“So…”. It imitates how we often think things through. It’s a very
>>satisfying form.
>>
>>When I was addicted to writing them, I also searched the Web and felt
>>disappointed by what I found. Some sites were poetry museums. Most sites
>>seemed to think they knew precisely what a sonnet should be – and I
>>suspected they were just repeating weary formulas passed on to weary
>>students (and ignoring too many contemporary poets).
>>
>>What I also like about sonnets, particularly at readings, is recognising
>>how much can be put into one. They don’t take long to hear but they feel
>>enormous!
>>
>>I guess, as an analogy, I’d compare sonnets to the blues! Do blues songs
>>all have to have 12 bars? Do they have to keep repeating lines? Can a
>>white man sing a black man’s blues? Or is it just that some songs and
>>tunes feel like they’re the blues? (Sonnet, by the way, originally meant
>>“small song” – even though they’re usually mega-big on meaning and content
>>- so I think it’s an apt comparison).
>>
>>So, is yours a sonnet? Well, whaddya think?
>>
>>Bob
>>
>>Oh, and I’ll tell y what I think… It feels like one to me! I sense the
>>turn from one aspect to another comes with the word “Instead” – and the
>>two parts feel balanced and the final two lines carry a clear echo of
>>what’s gone before as well as stating something fresh. So I'm saying
>>YEH!!!
>>
>>If this were a Bob Cooper sonnet, however, (which it isn't) I'd wonder
>>about keeping:
>>"Nor do I visit age-old haunts
>>re- capturing the love that’s lost"
>>because I sense I've almost already said that in what's already been said!
>>And I'd consider adding more lines that detail what you do Instead...
>>But, then again, after I've experimented a few times I might feel I like
>>how it feels at the moment. Cos I sense that's the other magic about
>>sonnets: how they balance one thing against another!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Sally writes:
>>>I have revised this poem. A bit old fashioned I know. Every line except
>>>the first has eight syllables, the first has nine. There are fourteen
>>>lines.
>>>The last two lines nearly rhyme. Could I call this a variation of the
>>>sonnet form?
>>
>>
>>>From: Sally James <[log in to unmask]>
>>>Reply-To: The Pennine Poetry Works <[log in to unmask]>
>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>Subject: new sub In my dreams
>>>Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 03:05:41 +0100
>>>
>>>In my dreams
>>>
>>>I no longer search in faceless crowds
>>>and hover round the silent phone
>>>or pine for mailings never sent
>>>and stare outside through misty panes
>>>or listen for the footless boot
>>>that whispered down the grassy path
>>>Nor do I visit age-old haunts
>>>re- capturing the love that’s lost
>>>Instead I curl up with my books
>>>I tend my garden, walk the dogs
>>>and sit on benches in the shade
>>>then close my eyes and think of him
>>>
>>>Who vanished like he’d never been
>>>for what was real is now a dream.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Sally James
>>>
>>
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