Hello Dr. van Nes,

Please could you resend the article on self organisation. For some reason I
did not receive it.

Anthony

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nes, A.van [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 5:58 AM
> To:   [log in to unmask]
> Subject:      Re: self organisation & morphogenesis and the structure of
> human sett lements
>
> Hello,
> For a time ago there was a discussion about self organisation in built
> environments. Here is an article forthcoming in Postmodern Science. Ed.
> Robert Froemke et al. from Dr. Hab. Dirk Varderbeke that could be of
> interest. With his permission, hereby attached one article. He can be
> contacted on the e-mail adress: [log in to unmask]
> Kind regards Akkie
>
> Dr. scient Akkelies van Nes
> TU Delft, Faculty of Architecture
> Department of Urban Renewal and Management
> Berlageweg 1
> 2628 CR Delft
> The Netherlands
> Tel (direct) +31 15 2783077
> Fax: +31 15 2783411
>
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Beattie, Alan [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Verzonden: dinsdag 3 februari 2004 10:27
> Aan: [log in to unmask]
> Onderwerp: Re: self organisation & morphogenesis and the structure of
> human sett lements
>
>
> Alan
>
> It depends on the company you keep....
> There is I believe (not least in the vicinity of UCL) a rhetorical party
> line in embryology/ developmental biology that derides [certain kinds of]
> modelling; they exemplify the strong reductionist programme, as a I
> recall,
> of which Lewis Wolpert has been a chief and especially disdainful
> advocate.
> There have always been others who take a different line (eg Goodwin;
> Kauffman; Cohen & Stewart; etc). But for instance cellular automata models
> seem to be emerging as a possible common ground - not of course
> uncontested,
> but bringing together some unusual bedfellows...(since such models appear
> both in computational biology and - do they not - in recent developments
> in
> urban modelling at UCL).
> You guys would be a better judge than I am of whether this could be a
> strand
> in SS4.
>
> Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Penn [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 02 February 2004 16:45
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: self organisation & morphogenesis and the structure of
> human sett lements
>
>
> Alan,
>
> my developmental biology friends tell me that modeling fell out of
> fashion as it was overtaken by experimental methods at the molecular and
> genetic levels. But I think you are right - perhaps it would make an
> interesting strand through the next Space Syntax symposium?
>
> Alan Penn
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> On
> > Behalf Of Beattie, Alan
> > Sent: 02 February 2004 16:05
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: self organisation & morphogenesis and the structure of
> human
> > sett lements
> >
> > Bill
> > OK yes, those big fat Waddington books were required reading for quite
> a
> > while...
> > And yes I believe it was yours truly that dreamed up the phrase space
> > syntax.
> > You always used to accuse me of doing so at any rate. I think you and
> I
> > were
> > both migrating into reading Chomsky at the time, although Howard
> Pattee
> > (in
> > Waddington) and Aristide Lindenmayer (and even Thom, as in
> Semiophysics)
> > were making the case for a linguistic approach in theoretical biology.
> > Now there's a topic for a seminar - where is all that at, now?
> > Best wishes
> > Alan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Professor Bill Hillier [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: 02 February 2004 13:24
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: self organisation & morphogenesis and the structure of
> > human sett lements
> >
> >
> > Dear Alan - How nice to hear from you ! You are absolutely right of
> course
> > - and I had completely forgotten about the Transactions paper. Worse,
> I
> > had
> > a temporary amnesia over the four volumes of Waddington's 'Theoretical
> > Biology' series, which were of course hugely influential. What I
> perhaps
> > should have said was that as space syntax developed it tended to
> relate
> > less - and certainly less than it should - to the later developments
> in
> > these fields, and become more concerned perhaps with internal
> development.
> > I'm quite sure its time to turn it round !
> >
> > By the way, I think I'm right in saying that you invented the term
> 'space
> > syntax', although I had used the idea of syntax before in talking
> abhout
> > space, for example in 'The architecture of architecture', I think you
> > actually coined the term ?
> > - Bill
> >
> >
> >
> > >Bill
> > >
> > >It's been a very long time since we communicated, and I've never
> > previously
> > >contributed to this list -  I've been lurking for ages, and reading
> it
> > with
> > >great interest and admiration, but I'm essentially a spectator
> nowadays
> > on
> > >the sidelines of this area of work.
> > >
> > >But I'm seriously puzzled and disconcerted by the brief historical
> note
> > that
> > >you offer in the email below.
> > >
> > >As I recall, when I worked with you and Adrian Leaman (in the
> supportive
> > >presence of Professor John Musgrove) 30 years ago at UCL to create a
> new
> > MSc
> > >in Advanced Architectural Studies and to write and submit [in 1974]
> the
> > >first successful bid to the Science Research Council (as was) for the
> > >programme of research that we called Space Syntax, ideas about
> morphology
> > >and morphogenesis were absolutely central to our deliberations. And
> those
> > >ideas, put together over the preceding 3 years or so, most
> emphatically
> > did
> > >already draw on theoretical and mathematical biology, self-organising
> > >systems and artificial intelligence.
> > >
> > >Your own early published papers eg in Transactions of the Bartlett
> > Society,
> > >themselves make that lineage absolutely clear.
> > >One of my contributions was to bring to bear the literature on the
> > >mathematical modelling of growth and form, both in its application to
> > >biological systems and in its application to 'complex buildings' (as
> the
> > >module that I ran on the MSc from 1974 to the early 80s was
> entitled).
> > Among
> > >the many strands of theoretical-mathematical biology and biophysics
> that
> > we
> > >spent much time on, I recall Waddington's epigenetic landscapes and
> > >chreodes, Rene Thom's 7 catastrophes, Howard Pattee's analysis of
> > >hierarchical structures, Lindenmayer's 'L-systems' for the modelling
> of
> > >self-organising growth, Stanislav Ulam on self-assembly in cellular
> > systems,
> > >HA Simon's 'Architecture of Complexity' and 'Sciences of the
> Artificial'
> > -
> > >to mention but a few.
> > >
> > >As you know I had myself previously tried in the early 60s to use the
> > newly
> > >emerging techniques of mathematical morphology and morphogenesis in
> my
> > work
> > >as a DPhil student in the Medical Research Council Cell Metabolism
> > Research
> > >Unit at Oxford University (where I was on the receiving end of severe
> > >discouragement from senior biomedical scientists); and I'd
> subsequently
> > >tried to use these ideas again when I worked for the Medical
> Architecture
> > >Research Unit 1971-74, eg in the planning of hospitals, health
> centres
> > etc
> > >(where again such morphological approaches were received less
> favourably
> > >than 'general systems' ideas). But although I moved away from UCL and
> > from
> > >space syntax, I've always supposed that SS [at its best] is a prime
> > example
> > >of just the kind of non-linear, discrete generative modelling that
> some
> > of
> > >the pioneers of biomathematics and AI/artificial life had envisioned.
> > >I would even go so far as to say that SS is a more authentic specimen
> of
> > >that kind of science than are some of the faddish outbreaks of
> > >post-chaos-theory 'complex systems' modelling - which have not (in my
> > >opinion) grasped the significance of the distinctively linguistic
> > >(discursive, syntactical) agenda that Thom, Lindenmayer, Pattee and
> > others
> > >sketched for the new generative and relational biology. That's
> another
> > >story; but I would have thought that all those generations of
> students
> > from
> > >UCL from 3 and 2 decades ago whose studies of built environment were
> > >seriously interrupted by the back-breaking reading lists that you and
> I
> > gave
> > >them on the mathematical biology of morphogenesis might actually have
> > cause
> > >to be very grateful that there was indeed already a fruitful
> convergence
> > of
> > >concepts in those early years, one that still deserves to be pursued
> > further
> > >in many new directions.
> > >
> > >You say "But there are of course parallels, and there is a great deal
> of
> > >interaction now".
> > >I can't think that you really mean to disown the unique (and
> > exceptionally
> > >interesting) origins of space syntax.
> > >
> > >Alan
> > >
> > >Alan Beattie
> > >Professor of Public Health and Health Education, St Martin's College
> > >Lancaster
> > >MA Tutor and PhD Supervisor, Institute for Health Research, Lancaster
> > >University
> > >Member, Complexity Network, Institute for Advanced Study in the
> Social &
> > >Management Sciences, Lancaster
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Professor Bill Hillier [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > >Sent: 30 January 2004 16:50
> > >To: [log in to unmask]
> > >Subject: Re: self organisation & morphogenesis and the structure of
> > >human sett lements
> > >
> > >
> > >Dear Anthony - Not really - it very much came out of problems in
> trying
> > to
> > >understand architecture. But there are of course parallels, and there
> is
> > a
> > >good deal of interaction now. People like Alasdair Turner in the
> research
> > >group here came from artificial intelligence, and Rui Carvalho is a
> > >mathematical physicist. So convergence, yes, very much so, but less
> so in
> > >origins. The origins are really set out in the Introduction to 'The
> > Social
> > >Logic of Space'. And by the way, you might look at the second chapter
> > there
> > >where we first tried look at generative processes which led to the
> kinds
> > of
> > >spatial patterning you find in settlement -  what I call in the
> Atlanta
> > >paper  the 'basic generative process': it produces the topology but
> not
> > the
> > >geometry of the city. It was the kinds of restrictions on otherwise
> > random
> > >generative processes that seemed to be needed to describe the range
> of
> > >spatial variation found in real settlements that were the sources of
> the
> > >ideas that became space synyax as an analytic tool. - Bill
> > >
> > >
> > >>Dear Bill - Was the development of space syntax theory done in
> parallel
> > to
> > >>the development of theories of self organisation and emergence in
> > biology,
> > >>physics, mathematics and artificial intelligence? If it was, then an
> > >>interesting convergence of ideas could be taking place.
> > >>
> > >>Anthony
> > >>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Professor Bill Hillier [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > >>> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 5:25 AM
> > >>> To:   [log in to unmask]
> > >>> Subject:      Re: self organisation & morphogenesis and the
> structure
> > of
> > >>> human sett lements
> > >>>
> > >>> Dear Anthony - There are quite a few papers in the Space Syntax
> > Symposia
> > >>> Proceeedings which address thes issues, though not always under
> the
> > title
> > >>> of 'self-organising systems'. But in a sense, a good deal of the
> space
> > >>> syntax stuff about cities is about self-organisation, though it
> > doesn't
> > >>> call itself that. It's about how multi-agent distributed processes
> > spread
> > >>> over decades or centuries create well-formed emergent patterns
> with
> > both
> > >>> invariants and differences. So in a sense, it's a theory of the
> > 'organic'
> > >>> city. You should browse the web-sites for the last two symposia
> > >>>
> > >>> As far as the things I have written myslf are concerned, a key
> recent
> > >text
> > >>> is my first paper to the Third Symposium called 'A theory of the
> city
> > as
> > >>> object' http://undertow.arch.gatech.edu/homepages/3sss/ which
> tries to
> > >>> give
> > >>> some account of how the spatial patterns formed by the aggregation
> of
> > >>> buildings acquire certain kind of emergent structure. This  builds
> on
> > >>> earlier papers which describe between them how emergent space
> > structure
> > >in
> > >>> cities shapes the processes of movement, land use patterns and
> centre
> > and
> > >>> sub-centre formation in cities. The sequence of papers is:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hillier B et al (1993) Natural movement: or configuration and
> > attraction
> > >>> in
> > >>> urban pedestrian movement - Environment & Planning B: Planning &
> > Design
> > >>> 20,
> > >>> 29-66
> > >>>
> > >>> Hillier B (1996) - Cities as movement economies in Urban Design
> > >>> International Vol 1 No 1 pp49-60 E & F.N.Spon. Also Chapter 4 of
> Space
> > is
> > >>> the Machine.
> > >>>
> > >>> Hillier B (2000) Centrality as a process: accounting for
> attraction
> > >>> inequalities in deformed grids Urban Design International, 3/4,
> 107-
> > 127
> > >>>
> > >>> Hillier B (2002) A theory of the city as object: how the social
> > >>> construction of urban space is mediated by spatial laws Urban
> Design
> > >>> International  7, 153-159)
> > >>>
> > >>> Also relevant are
> > >>>
> > >>> Hillier B et al (2000) Self-generated neighbourhood consolidation
> in
> > >>> informal settlements (with Margarita Greene and Jake Desyllas)
> Urban
> > >>> Design
> > >>> International ISSN 1357 5317 vol 5 no 2 61-96
> > >>>
> > >>> Hillier B (1999) The hidden geometry of deformed grids: or, why
> space
> > >>> syntax works, when it looks as though it shouldn't Environment and
> > >>> Planning
> > >>> B: Planning & Design, 26, 169-191
> > >>>
> > >>> Self-orgnaisation issues are also dealt with in in different way
> in my
> > >two
> > >>> paper to the Fourth Symposium:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hillier B (2003a) The architectures of seeing and going Paper to
> the
> > >>> Fourth
> > >>> Space Synyax Symposium, London, June 2003.
> > >>>
> > >>> Hillier B (2003b) The knowledge that shapes the city Paper to the
> > Fourth
> > >>> Space Syntax Symposium, London, June 2003
> > >>>
> > >>> both of which can be downloaded from www.spacesyntax.net or
> > >>> www.spacesyntax.org/
> > >>>
> > >>>  - Bill
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> >I am studying how the theories of self organisation &
> morphogenesis
> > >could
> > >>> >help our understanding of the structure of human settlements.
> > Obviously,
> > >>> >space syntax theories would be useful in this regard. Has any
> > research
> > >>> been
> > >>> >done in this area.
> > >>> >
> > >>> >Anthony
> > >>> >
> > >>> >----wrtmail--%3423wrt%----
> > >>
> > >>----wrtmail--%3423wrt%----
> > >
> > >
> > >
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>  << File: Synecdoche-final.doc >>

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